“Small-caliber philosophy” for shotguns?

[Macintosh]

To be fair, with ANY gauge shooting lead at long range you generally only have a viable pattern in the center “core” of what the pattern would have been at closer range. The fringe of the pattern has, to a significant degree, been lost to stringing and pellet deformation. Therefore the outside of the pattern is not as dense as it was, and loses effective range earlier. Result is you can make some impressive hits at that range if you center it. But the real question is whether you are shooting a pattern at that range that is likely to wound birds if you hit them just outside the core, ie is the ENTIRE pattern still a killing pattern? Sometimes yes, but In many cases its not. Again this applies to any gauge nearing the end of its effective range. You can get around this in two ways—shoot more shot or shoot more efficient shells (ie harder shot, better wads). One comes with recoil, one comes with a price tag, pick your poison.

 

[OneGunTex]

Thanks for all the replies! Here's some things I'm taking away after reading your posts.

If the small-caliber reasoning is:

• right bullet + low recoil = you suck less and kill more.

The shotgun version with small-bore seems to have an extra variable of pattern:

• right pellets (TSS) + low recoil - pattern

And since pattern > recoil for a beginner like me, seems I'd still suck, kill less, and spend way more (TSS) with small-bore.
If you were skilled, I'm reading from some it can be recoil > pattern.


On barrel length, if I'm reading correctly it's more about the balance than the actual length itself...? Could one get the balance right somehow with a shorter barrel?

I think this is spot on, and I commend you for being able to cut through our back and forth debating and distill this insight

 

[WRO]

Thanks for all the replies! Here's some things I'm taking away after reading your posts.

If the small-caliber reasoning is:

• right bullet + low recoil = you suck less and kill more.

The shotgun version with small-bore seems to have an extra variable of pattern:

• right pellets (TSS) + low recoil - pattern

And since pattern > recoil for a beginner like me, seems I'd still suck, kill less, and spend way more (TSS) with small-bore.
If you were skilled, I'm reading from some it can be recoil > pattern.


On barrel length, if I'm reading correctly it's more about the balance than the actual length itself...? Could one get the balance right somehow with a shorter barrel?

The small caliber reasoning has no basis in shotguns.

Recoil is really a factor of load size, gun weight, and stock design.

Longer barrels swing better, short barrels are good for snap shooting.

Gun fit matters way more than gauge or weight.

You want to get good, go shoot multiple rental guns at the local range, have a pro fit you. Then shoulder your gun every day slowly to get consistency, then get a lazer and do lazer drills (there’s multiple videos on YouTube) and then shoot about 5k rounds starting with skeet and trap and you’ll have a good start.

 

[Forelle]

It also depends on what you intend to hunt. If you’re sitting in a duck blind, a 12 gauge with a long nice swinging barrel isn’t an issue because it’s resting in your lap most of the time. Having more pellets in the air increases your odds. This helps when you misread the distance or the lead.

If you’re going to be doing mostly upland, which is what I do, a 20 sure carries nice. After 30 years of doing it, I still like a 28” over under or 26” auto loader for this task.

I’d recommend a 20 or 12 to a new shooter/hunter to give you the advantage of more pellets in the air. Also, these calibers are the most affordable and easiest to find. If you’re in the woods and forget your ammo, it’s harder to find the load you want at a gas station or Walmart in a 16, 28, 410. Been there and it sucks.

If you get into loading, the world is your oyster. For instance, I currently mostly shoot a 3/4 ounce loaded 20 gauge, which is in essence a 28 gauge load. I have old shoulders, so this load in a heavier 20 vs a lighter 28 gauge gun, helps keep recoil at a minimum. But, that’s another rabbit hole….

 

[Weldor]

LOP has always been a problem for me. 6'4 and long arms. I can't justify a custom stock for the amount of use. I look for 14" plus LOP on stock guns.

 

[ianpadron]

LOP has always been a problem for me. 6'4 and long arms. I can't justify a custom stock for the amount of use. I look for 14" plus LOP on stock guns.

Even 14" is way short for ya. I'm 6'2 with a 6'5" wingspan and I need a 14.5 at the bare minimum, 15" being ideal.

 

[yfarm]

It also depends on what you intend to hunt. If you’re sitting in a duck blind, a 12 gauge with a long nice swinging barrel isn’t an issue because it’s resting in your lap most of the time. Having more pellets in the air increases your odds. This helps when you misread the distance or the lead.

If you’re going to be doing mostly upland, which is what I do, a 20 sure carries nice. After 30 years of doing it, I still like a 28” over under or 26” auto loader for this task.

I’d recommend a 20 or 12 to a new shooter/hunter to give you the advantage of more pellets in the air. Also, these calibers are the most affordable and easiest to find. If you’re in the woods and forget your ammo, it’s harder to find the load you want at a gas station or Walmart in a 16, 28, 410. Been there and it sucks.

If you get into loading, the world is your oyster. For instance, I currently mostly shoot a 3/4 ounce loaded 20 gauge, which is in essence a 28 gauge load. I have old shoulders, so this load in a heavier 20 vs a lighter 28 gauge gun, helps keep recoil at a minimum. But, that’s another rabbit hole….

You realize that 26” auto corresponds in length to a 34” o/u. Not too many people using 34” barrel o/u except dedicated trap shooters.
As Macintosh pointed out in a previous post the weight of an O/U is spread more uniformly along the overall length vs an auto is concentrated centrally given the receiver, magazine tube and ammunition which may explain why users feel the longer barrel auto swing better. For me weight and instinctive shooting biases my choice towards the shorter barrel. I do own a Citori White Lightning Upland with 24” barrels as well as a Citori 20 lightning 26” which shoots better.

 

[Macintosh]

LOP has always been a problem for me. 6'4 and long arms. I can't justify a custom stock for the amount of use. I look for 14" plus LOP on stock guns.

Even 14" is way short for ya. I'm 6'2 with a 6'5" wingspan and I need a 14.5 at the bare minimum, 15" being ideal.

Me too. Its off topic but its sort of on topic for someone shotgun shopping, but a gun with stock shims and with different thickness recoil pads available that allows a “custom” fit from an off the shelf gun is worth its weight in gold. Best shotgunning invention in the last 30 years imo. I would highly encourage anyone looking for their first gun to go this route, and use part of their lesson getting it fit to you, the instructions never cover it sufficiently.

 

[ianpadron]

Me too. Its off topic but its sort of on topic for someone shotgun shopping, but a gun with stock shims and with different thickness recoil pads available that allows a “custom” fit from an off the shelf gun is worth its weight in gold. Best shotgunning invention in the last 30 years imo. I would highly encourage anyone looking for their first gun to go this route, and use part of their lesson getting it fit to you, the instructions never cover it sufficiently.

Definitely on topic, especially with how much recoil has come up in the thread.

Proper stock fit is crucial, and guys think they need a 13.5 or 14" LOP like their rifles all the time!

First time I shot a Montefeltro compact (20 g) I damn near broke my cheek bone, added 1.5" to the LOP and never thought about it again.

Just like stock design in making small caliber rifles more shootable, a proper fitting stock on a bird gun will soak up recoil and make a fella a much better shot.

 

[Macintosh]

yep you're right of course, I was thinking more on the terminal part, but with recoil central to the topic that's 100% true.

 

[JFK]

Even 14" is way short for ya. I'm 6'2 with a 6'5" wingspan and I need a 14.5 at the bare minimum, 15" being ideal.

About the same for me. I’m 6’3”, long arms. Once I got my LOP setup to 15” everything just got so much better. Guns come from the factory for an adult male that’s about 5’10”. If that’s not you, then your LOP is not correct. I tried my gun out at 15.25” and thought it felt a little too stretched out but honestly it was still way better than factory LOP.