Signed up for the Covid Zombie Juice.....

[NDGuy]

Isn't it true that Pfizer and Maderna asked for complete immunity before releasing the vaccine?

Yes but that’s not uncommon. And it wasn’t granted by every country.

 

[Broomd]

Godspeed to those who get the shot.
Nothing I've read in 150 something posts makes me want to get the vaccine.

This place is full of hunters that see first hand it's survival of the fittest.
What happened to building your own immune system?

I hope Fatbacks won't mind me quoting this posting, I found it incredibly important with this topic. He shared this in the "Vaccine" thread which was regrettably closed. His thoughts are very poignant as it relates to your 'survival of the fittest" comment....

"I will not be getting it.... because I just got back from a boat based hunt in Alaska where 4/5 guys got the 'rona.

I know this will fall on deaf ears for the people who need to hear it, but hey, why not try and sway some internet opinions. All of us are fit dudes in their 30' and 40's (smoke jumper, army ranger, veterans, etc.) Dude who should've gotten the sickest had the mildest case. One dude who lived with us all week didn't get it. The fittest guy on the boat cannot walk on the treadmill more than 10 minutes as of yesterday - he was a freaking machine before covid. I had about 5 days where I was debating on going to the hospital a few times each day - couldn't breathe. I am still short of breath and very lethargic. Now it is waiting game to see if/when my cardio and lung function come back. I think it is going to be a long road. Covid is real and it doesn't just mess up old people.

If I could go back in time and get a vaccine to prevent this, hell yeah I would do it. As to the 'everyone fend for themself' attitude that is so ubiquitous on this thread I would say I look at it differently... I served in the army for over a decade trying to make America a better place and if I can get a vaccine to help America get back to normal and help confer greater immunity to society then I am all for it."

 

[7Bartman]

Isn't it true that Pfizer and Maderna asked for complete immunity before releasing the vaccine?

Yes. I think the asking didn't come from them, but was guaranteed by the govt. This is not unusual. In fact, many of the infrastructure for mass production of vaccines had been driven offshore b/c of lawsuits. Many companies stopped trying to produce vaccines as the tort laws and claims had gotten out of hand. It almost doesn't matter what vaccine you're going to produce, something bad/fatal is going to happen to someone. Hopefully this is more in the 1/10 mil vs. 1/50k kind of thing.
I just had this conversation with a buddy the other day. Think about it, these vaccines will be administered to millions of Americans in the next year. Sadly, some Americans will be diagnosed with a rare, life-threatening, potentially immunologic-related disease (e.g. multiple sclerosis) during this time period. If this diagnosis comes after receiving the vaccination, it's going to be difficult for them to believe that the vaccine didn't cause this.

 

[MattB]

"I served in the army for over a decade trying to make America a better place and if I can get a vaccine to help America get back to normal and help confer greater immunity to society then I am all for it."

I wasn't able to serve in the military, but that sentiment is definately helping form my perspective on whether to get the vaccine. The US wouldn't be much of a place to live if some who preceded us weren't willing to sacrifice to win and defend our freedom. I will admit it bothers me a bit to see some people who appear to have made their decision based solely on the answer to the question "what's in it for me?".

 

[Rob5589]

I'm in the camp of having had "mild" symptoms (the medical category term - "mild" still sucked) for 3 weeks, including pneumonia in one lung. I was previously completely healthy otherwise. Several months later I learned I have ground glass opacities in my lungs. I don't know what that means in the context of C-19, or for me long term, but I'm pretty sure it isn't good. Not saying this should be a dispositive issue for anyone, especially since it's anecdotal, but I offer it for consideration - especially for those who think that C-19 outcomes are binary (death or survival without any ongoing issues).

BTW, the x-ray was a great excuse to my buddies as to why I couldn't keep up in Idaho!

Apologies to those who watched the nuked thread for what's a combination of several of my posts there.

Sorry to hear. Hopefully you come out well in the end.

 

[seldomseensmith]

Godspeed to those who get the shot.
Nothing I've read in 150 something posts makes me want to get the vaccine.

This place is full of hunters that see first hand it's survival of the fittest.
What happened to building your own immune system?

This place is full of hunters that use sophisticated tools to hunt prey. Hunters whose lives have been saved by antibiotics. This place is full of hunters who have gone through radiation therapy to treat cancers and tumors.
Take it, don't take it, I don't give a shit but it's nothing new under the sun. Men make tools. Always have. It's just a tool.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

Sorry to hear. Hopefully you come out well in the end.

Thanks! I’m optimistic and apologize if my post sounded like I was complaining.

 

[z987k]

I wasn't able to serve in the military, but that sentiment is definately helping form my perspective on whether to get the vaccine. The US wouldn't be much of a place to live if some who preceded us weren't willing to sacrifice to win and defend our freedom. I will admit it bothers me a bit to see some people who appear to have made their decision based solely on the answer to the question "what's in it for me?".

A lot of those people, if they were born after ~1960 are alive and not paralyzed because those that came before them went and got a polio shot. A crap ton of us are only alive because those that came before got the smallpox vaccine. There were some risks with both of them. There were adverse reaction with both of them. But back then there was far less everybody for themselves libertarian hellscape ideology.

 

[Crowmangler]

This is relevant..

https://twitter.com/x/status/1339736971892183040

"It's a hard no for me dog"

 

[sndmn11]

I tested positive in July for Covid-19. At that time it seemed the official word was that antibodies would last for at least 3 months. Recently as the vaccine(s) were nearing and have been released there has been a lot of walking that back to about a month which seemed awful fishy to me. So, two days ago I had my blood drawn at the Doc specifically to test for antibodies, and sure enough, I still have them 5 months later.

This further makes me wonder why I have not heard anything about antibody testing prior to administration of any vaccine, in an effort to not immunize the immune, and make the limited number of vaccines most efficiently used.

 

[bcv]

This place is full of hunters that use sophisticated tools to hunt prey. Hunters whose lives have been saved by antibiotics. This place is full of hunters who have gone through radiation therapy to treat cancers and tumors.
Take it, don't take it, I don't give a shit but it's nothing new under the sun. Men make tools. Always have. It's just a tool.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

A long bow isn't all that sophisticated but I understand your point.
I can see that some of you on here are using this as your time to shine. Your 15 minutes have arrived.
Me? I'm a stage 3 cancer survivor... Not from a vaccine but from living a healthy life and paying attention to what goes into my body.
Vaccine being a tool is debatable.. I've seen first hand vaccines change my sons life forever and not in a positive way.
But my point is only, don't think some chemical concoction is the end all save all solution. You could end up w life long lingering after effects.

 

[Fatcamp]

I will be receiving the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow at 0900.

A bunch of my team got it over the last 24 hours and will get it over the weekend. We schedule for our booster at the time of our initial vaccination.

 

[Theringworm]

I'll try and address some of the concerns in this thread and some from Jmez above.
First off, how is it not a strong data set? Both vaccine studies were very large >30k, double-blinded, placebo-controlled studies, which is the GOLD standard. The primary endpoints were pre-specified. The efficacy of both vaccines were abundantly clear (both FDA advisory committees voted overwhelmingly to support the emergency use authorization). I can tell you this study was highly watched as for once, we all had a stake in the game.
You are correct about the concerns for the handling of the Pfizer vaccine, but this is also highly regulated. I'm not saying there won't be some temperature deviations and lots that are thrown out, but these won't be administered. If I was able to give experimental ebola drugs in Africa without a dependable power source that had to be kept below -50, I'm not too worried about the vaccine here.
Okay, to address of the other comments: 1) The mRNA in the vaccine is directed to make the spike protein from SARS-CoV2. While mutations have occurred in this spike protein, there is no indication that this will greatly impact the efficacy of the vaccine. The issue with the influenza virus is quite different, but suffice to say not a similar comparison here.
2) There are still many unknowns, but what we do know are what the common side effects are (injection-site soreness, malaise, chills, joint pain). Most of these occur after the booster shot (i.e., when the immune system has been primed). What we don't know are the incidence of serious rare adverse events, however we should be getting a better handle on this quit soon as hundreds of thousands are being exposed. I would bet that some of these (e.g. 1/50,000) will occur, but hopefully the benefit/risk will stay acceptable.
3) There have already been some cases of anaphylaxis reported. This does not surprise me at all, especially given the lipid nanoparticle (think tiny fat globule...olive oil in vinegar) that is used to deliver the mRNA into are cells. This vaccine in some degree does what the virus does and hijacks our cellular machinery to make the spike protein so our immune system can then recognize it.
I'm happy to answer any other questions if I can. In full disclosure I'm not an expert on infectious disease or vaccine development, but I do have expertise on mRNA and drug development.

An excellent reply by a well informed individual. 100% agree. I received my vaccine yesterday. I am 43, 150lbs, 5’10”, Caucasian, fit and healthy. I am considered high risk to catch the virus (given my job) but would be considered “low risk” for having much if any symptoms if infected, and even much less risk to have severe symptoms. However to quote the quote that Broomd shared, “this has nothing to do with survival of the fittest” and everything to do with decreasing the odds, odds that may be already really really low and an odd that could have the most severest of consequences even in the young and healthy...all be it not the norm. For me the data is convincing and the benefits are obvious. Long term efficacy is the unknown, but not a deal breaker. Short term side effects, not any different than any other vaccine. Long term side effects..... unknown but given the mRNAs mechanism of action and physical structure likely to be minimal and quite rare.

The irony I see from most on this forum and first hand encounters..... most haven’t had COVID yet assume, as even I have rationalized, “I won’t get the virus”, ”if I get the virus I am young without comorbidities and am not worried if I do”. Therefore that means I don’t need a vaccine that’s unproven or leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Or the questions it does answer and the benefits it does provide aren’t convincing enough for me to proceed with inoculation. Yet, many willing smoke cigarettes, full well knowing the long term side effects. Drive a car to work without a seat belt. Live grossly unhealthy lifestyles and ingest very poor diets. We take risks daily, roll the dice at every whim.....do I or don’t I? It’s all about risk versus reward. For many the politicization or sensationalism of a topic provides good banter and discussion, but when pushed to the edge of he cliff......what will you decide then? It’s not for me/us to convince, condone, or chastise others and their decisions. All of our situations are different. For me it simply came down to the Reward for getting the vaccine ouweights the risk for me Not getting it.

Fo many, we want acute/immediate results. We want to see all of their benefits and all of their detriments present themselves as soon as possible. This aids in helping us to make a decision. Who in the world wants to wait for a result or a reward? I am living proof of this. I am an anesthesiologist. Every single medication I use provides almost an immediate result In the OR. When things go bad I don’t have time to wait nor do I want to wait to see if what I am giving or what I am doing is working. I need and want to know now so that I can change course if needed to yield better results. I think for most the Vaccine is being looked at like this. The immediate immunity, all be it over a couple of weeks after both injections, provides the immediate benefit. But.....is it long term? The acute side effects are minimal, but what about the long term ones? Unfortunately the data we have thus far can’t answer all of these questions.

The world we live in currently is no different. We barely live “in the NOW”, but have approached to trying to “live in the future”. Social media, chat forums, the internet......so much information coming at us instantaneously. Unfortunately “the now” and the “immediate future” can’t yield the answers we desire. The vaccine for many is no different.
All I can recommend is, Educate yourself and make a choice.

I have made a lot of poor choices in my life with and without all of the consequences known before deciding that could have resulted in immediate and severe consequences and will likely continue to do so, We all keep betting on ourself.....

 

[sndmn11]

I will be receiving the Pfizer vaccine tomorrow at 0900.

A bunch of my team got it over the last 24 hours and will get it over the weekend. We schedule for our booster at the time of our initial vaccination.

When do you convert into a werewolf?

 

[307]

All I can recommend is, Educate yourself and make a choice.

With all due respect, is this a reasonable expectation? Is it reasonable for the Average Joe to be able to wade through all of the click bait scare tactics and assess the quality information with any degree of comprehension?

Trusted experts used to do this for us, but with every single question being part of some conspiracy theory/allegation these days, that may be a relic of the past.

I'm not convinced that the average person, with no scientific knowledge/background, even has a chance to educate themselves on something like this.

Meanwhile, every Karen on FB with a GED education spends 10 minutes watching a crackpot YouTube video and forms an opinion which he/she then has the audacity to spread to other equally clueless individuals so that they can educate themselves and make a choice...

 

[jmez]

With all due respect, is this a reasonable expectation?

Has it ever been a reasonable expectation? If it is not, then who's job its it to tell them what they should think?

No one should be getting their information on what to do here from the news or social media, including this site.

 

[Rob5589]

With all due respect, is this a reasonable expectation? Is it reasonable for the Average Joe to be able to wade through all of the click bait scare tactics and assess the quality information with any degree of comprehension?

Trusted experts used to do this for us, but with every single question being part of some conspiracy theory/allegation these days, that may be a relic of the past.

I'm not convinced that the average person, with no scientific knowledge/background, even has a chance to educate themselves on something like this.

Meanwhile, every Karen on FB with a GED education spends 10 minutes watching a crackpot YouTube video and forms an opinion which he/she then has the audacity to spread to other equally clueless individuals so that they can educate themselves and make a choice...

Unfortunately too many people rely on social media non sense for info. Information is out there; CDC, FDA, the various pharmaceutical companies, your personal physician.

 

[307]

Has it ever been a reasonable expectation? If it is not, then who's job its it to tell them what they should think?

No one should be getting their information on what to do here from the news or social media, including this site.

The information wasn't available in years past. Professional journals, scientific studies, etc weren't available to the public in significant volume. Now there're available, but it's only confusing the issue IMO. Understanding and truly being able to process/digest scientific information is not an easy/intuitive process. Hell, within my field, even reading the abstracts becomes a disaster. To have a valid opinion, evaluating methods and processing some of the raw data becomes necessary. What percentage of the US population is even remotely capable of doing these things???

Experts within the field are likely the best option, but I'm not sure that will fly now that everyone seems to believe that they have a valid opinion following 5 minutes on google...

"Educate yourself" should be replaced by, "find a consensus opinion among experts in the field, and do what it says".

 

[Theringworm]

With all due respect, is this a reasonable expectation? Is it reasonable for the Average Joe to be able to wade through all of the click bait scare tactics and assess the quality information with any degree of comprehension?

Trusted experts used to do this for us, but with every single question being part of some conspiracy theory/allegation these days, that may be a relic of the past.

I'm not convinced that the average person, with no scientific knowledge/background, even has a chance to educate themselves on something like this.

Meanwhile, every Karen on FB with a GED education spends 10 minutes watching a crackpot YouTube video and forms an opinion which he/she then has the audacity to spread to other equally clueless individuals so that they can educate themselves and make a choice...

Well.....the same resources that existed back in the days of no internet still exist today. I know, it’s amazing we survived. Go to your physician and get their expert opinion and ask for literature on the subject. The same medical journals with research studies that help guide medical care do still exist, in paper form and electronic.

if you are relying on the internet, tv or social media to lead you to making the right choice, I will agree, be prepared for disappointment and confusion. It can be found but you have to look in the right spots.

Then again you are talking about people who post on Internet forums:

“Hey, I have a Vortex scope I need to send back for repairs. Who should I send it in to to get fixed”

or

whom ask a blatantly obvious question that has been discussed hundreds of times on a forum yet they were too lazy to look for old threads in the archives.

The internet and media are “enablers”. They make us inherently lazy. If you want answers at least put forth some effort. Great info can be found in many places. I have learned countless information on the internet. But some effort is required beyond that, and that effort will build upon the foundation of information you already have.

I like what 307 said:

"find a consensus opinion among experts in the field, and do what it says".

 

[jmez]

"find a consensus opinion among experts in the field, and do what it says".

With the politicization of virtually everything in our world even this is hard to come by.