Should Western Hunting Expo take a stand for Public Lands?

[1signguy]

Does the show generate much money for the local economy? Maybe that is why they get all of the tags? I have never been and know nothing about the show... but that thought came to mind.
As for the public land debate- isn't the idea that privatizing some of the land will create economic development and opportunity? Done in a sensible and balanced approach that would seem to make sense.
Having spent a fair amount of time in the beautiful state of Utah enjoying much of the public land- I have seen an innordenant amount of poor folks barely making it. I want to have open/public hunting lands but not at the expense of others going hungry or barely making ends meet.
That was my thought but again- I am just looking from the outside...

 

[cuerro viejo]

You don't (as well as most others) understand how the industry works. It is not a non-revenue show. It is a show and tell.

If you are a retailer, and want to carry products for the 2018 summer season, your preseason contracted minimum order is DUE anywhere between August 1 and October 30 of 2017. Contracts are signed, payment schedules arranged, and ship dates agreed to at that time. EARLY ship dates are considered to be in March. Outdoor Retailer is scheduled when it is for a very specific purpose. Outdoor Retailer and preseason ordering are how US outdoor companies guage how large of orders to place with their offshore manufacturing contractors.

Outdoor Retailer is scheduled as a hands on event to showcase the products for the following year. It is not a show for the general public, otherwise you would know this already and not spout mis information.

Every booth I have ever walked past, including Patagonia, is writing contracts during the show. Most have an entire weeks worth of scheduled sales meeting for dedicated one on one transactions between salespersons and buyers. You should see the area set up for talking with the Chinese product manufacturers...booked non stop for the US companies to arrange the actual manufacture of the products and prototypes you are seeing there.

Summer Outdoor Retailer 2017 will basically be for orders shipping March 2018 thru October 2018. Winter Outdoor Retailer is for primarily winter sports shipping August until March.

If you have the right connections, you should go at least once. It is free to anyone with legitimate credentials...if you register early enough.

Oh I've been many many times

Sales meeting to go over sell through is one thing. I do know the industry and know the fall/winter and spring/summer order dead lines and big guys are long past. Fall/winters lines start being shown in oct/Nov!! Fall OR is Jan! Spring/Summer lines start may/June and OR is July.

That's the biggest issue with the dates 99% of retailers have already booked orders, thus why it's a non revenue show for the big guys.

 

[sneaky]

Does the show generate much money for the local economy? Maybe that is why they get all of the tags? I have never been and know nothing about the show... but that thought came to mind.
As for the public land debate- isn't the idea that privatizing some of the land will create economic development and opportunity? Done in a sensible and balanced approach that would seem to make sense.
Having spent a fair amount of time in the beautiful state of Utah enjoying much of the public land- I have seen an innordenant amount of poor folks barely making it. I want to have open/public hunting lands but not at the expense of others going hungry or barely making ends meet.
That was my thought but again- I am just looking from the outside...

You are going to run into those "barely making it" types wherever you go. As a general rule, the economy of Utah is not in bad shape, and consistently ranks top 5 for jobs. Basically the only people not working in Utah are the ones who choose not to. We are talking about Utah...fair and balanced when it comes to public lands? What are you smoking? Yes, the show helps the local economy with hotels and restaurants and what-not, but SFW keeps 70% of tag revenue, RMEF was going to give 100% of those tag sales back to the state for wildlife. Doesn't matter at that point who is running the show, the effect on the local economy will still be the same. As it stands now, the wildlife are on the short end of the stick due to cronyism and political corruption. The nonsense about date security was the biggest farce that came out of that whole debacle last year. Don Peay has the right people in his pocket.

 

[CrzyTrekker]

It's a real shame that hunting-specific companies are letting the general outdoor industry (Patagonia, Black Diamond, etc.) take the real lead in this fight. Hunting companies should be leading those boycotts. I grew up in Ogden, Utah and I love to see Utah benefit financially from the outdoor industry conferences, but I'd be even happier to see Utah lose some money until its representatives pull their heads out of their backsides.

 

[1signguy]

You are going to run into those "barely making it" types wherever you go. As a general rule, the economy of Utah is not in bad shape, and consistently ranks top 5 for jobs. Basically the only people not working in Utah are the ones who choose not to. We are talking about Utah...fair and balanced when it comes to public lands? What are you smoking? Yes, the show helps the local economy with hotels and restaurants and what-not, but SFW keeps 70% of tag revenue, RMEF was going to give 100% of those tag sales back to the state for wildlife. Doesn't matter at that point who is running the show, the effect on the local economy will still be the same. As it stands now, the wildlife are on the short end of the stick due to cronyism and political corruption. The nonsense about date security was the biggest farce that came out of that whole debacle last year. Don Peay has the right people in his pocket.

I don't know where or how anyone got top five for Utah in anything- It has to be one of the poorest states period. This is not a bash- just an observation. There may be jobs but those positions pay almost nothing based on my experience. I purchase a lot of materials and supply a lot of items to companies in Utah so I have some understanding... They pay these folks just enough to live but they literally have to hunt for meat in the Fall in order to make ends meet... If opening some land opens some gateways to opportunity for some folks it would be silly not to consider it.

 

[CrzyTrekker]

I purchase a lot of materials and supply a lot of items to companies in Utah so I have some understanding... They pay these folks just enough to live but they literally have to hunt for meat in the Fall in order to make ends meet...

Confirmation bias? Maybe you should show us some statistics.

 

[realunlucky]

I don't know where or how anyone got top five for Utah in anything- It has to be one of the poorest states period. This is not a bash- just an observation. There may be jobs but those positions pay almost nothing based on my experience. I purchase a lot of materials and supply a lot of items to companies in Utah so I have some understanding... They pay these folks just enough to live but they literally have to hunt for meat in the Fall in order to make ends meet... If opening some land opens some gateways to opportunity for some folks it would be silly not to consider it.

I live in Utah and I don't agree with your assessment of the majority of the population. I hope people don't have to hunt to eat here because Utah is not managed as a opportunity state very few tags are OTC.
Sure a few people could make a bunch of money but doesn't seem to me to trickle into the communities like you seem to think it would.
I can see you have bought into the idealistic dream of plt but you obviously don't understand Utah or its politics.I hate what the federal government dictates into continuous monuments and access denial across this state, but it's nothing like the cluster**** Utah state legislators could do. Dirty politics rules here as the facts from bidding process of the expo clearly show. If they can't see 100% is better for the state than 30% they aren't too bright. Maybe they are worried about kick backs and buddy money more than what's best for Utah and no way would I let those guys control public lands.

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[realunlucky]

The expo can not and will never leave Utah so the real question is should vendors support it or not

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[tipsntails7]

The expo can not and will never leave Utah so the real question is should vendors support it or not

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I personally don't think that's even a question.

I don't understand how a business that makes money off hunting or any type of public land can willingly give Utah(SFW) any money and not worry that they have almost ZERO accountability on how that money is spent, combine that with the constant assault on public lands by Utah reps.

I feel bad for the sportsmen of Utah, as it seams their voice matters little in that state.

When I did the goat survey last year at Willard peak, I met some remarkably nice people from Utah, and would hunt with them anytime.

I have a personal quandary as I've got 5 points for a number of animals, and am unsure what I should do. Should I continue to give a state money that cares little about the type of hunter I am? Will there be tags available by the time I get enough point to draw certain units? Will I even ever be able to draw or should I just burn them now? Tuff choices all around.


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[1signguy]

I don't know where or how anyone got top five for Utah in anything- It has to be one of the poorest states period. This is not a bash- just an observation. There may be jobs but those positions pay almost nothing based on my experience. I purchase a lot of materials and supply a lot of items to companies in Utah so I have some understanding... They pay these folks just enough to live but they literally have to hunt for meat in the Fall in order to make ends meet... If opening some land opens some gateways to opportunity for some folks it would be silly not to consider it.

All I will say is that when we take a bunch of guys up into the mountains of Utah to hunt and fish you learn quite a bit about them... Some of them have "very good jobs" but are really struggling...

As I said, I enjoy all of the public land in Utah but if you can open some of the land to development you potentially create all sorts of good jobs and pathways to improvement. It is not an easy thing either way and I understand everyones apprehension... These are just my observations...

 

[Burnt Reynolds]

100 plus years ago wild lands were sold to timber companies & large out of state conglomerates, particularly here in the valley.

Fast forward to today and there's a sickening number of shut gates with very LARGE no trespassing signs as one company consumed another effectively pricing out the rest of us. Even foot/bicycle/equine access agreements were terminated.

About 15 years ago I was working with Weyerhaueser on a project and they gave me a master gate key that opened up every gate of theirs west of I5, driving around behind the gates as much as I did was when I realized how screwed the little guy is when it comes to accessing vast tracts of wild places.

The exact same thing will happen in Utah and elsewhere if the public land is sold off. Perhaps not today or tomorrow - but it will happen.

 

[CrzyTrekker]

All I will say is that when we take a bunch of guys up into the mountains of Utah to hunt and fish you learn quite a bit about them... Some of them have "very good jobs" but are really struggling...

Again, confirmation bias. Let's see some hard statistics.

 

[sneaky]

I don't know where or how anyone got top five for Utah in anything- It has to be one of the poorest states period. This is not a bash- just an observation. There may be jobs but those positions pay almost nothing based on my experience. I purchase a lot of materials and supply a lot of items to companies in Utah so I have some understanding... They pay these folks just enough to live but they literally have to hunt for meat in the Fall in order to make ends meet... If opening some land opens some gateways to opportunity for some folks it would be silly not to consider it.

Obviously your Google function is broke on your computer. Shame you can't afford a new one. Oh, wait, that's an assumption based on no facts. Just like what you were saying.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/12/utah-is-americas-top-state-for-business-in-2016.html

 

[CrzyTrekker]

About 15 years ago I was working with Weyerhaueser on a project and they gave me a master gate key that opened up every gate of theirs west of I5, driving around behind the gates as much as I did was when I realized how screwed the little guy is when it comes to accessing vast tracts of wild places.

The exact same thing will happen in Utah and elsewhere if the public land is sold off. Perhaps not today or tomorrow - but it will happen.

Yep

 

[sneaky]

All I will say is that when we take a bunch of guys up into the mountains of Utah to hunt and fish you learn quite a bit about them... Some of them have "very good jobs" but are really struggling...

As I said, I enjoy all of the public land in Utah but if you can open some of the land to development you potentially create all sorts of good jobs and pathways to improvement. It is not an easy thing either way and I understand everyones apprehension... These are just my observations...

Very good jobs, but struggling. Well, then, it would appear they should stop living above their means. That's a far different stance than the one you posited earlier.

 

[sneaky]

Seems that Utah was the number 1 economy for 2016, as a quick search for "Utah economy" will point out.

 

[tipsntails7]

Seems that Utah was the number 1 economy for 2016, as a quick search for "Utah economy" will point out.

It wasn't, those are fallacy ratings, it "may" be the fastest growing economy but that's because it's economy started at dang near the bottom of the pile. It's not the best or strongest in a conventional sense.


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[sneaky]

It wasn't, those are fallacy ratings, it "may" be the fastest growing economy but that's because it's economy started at dang near the bottom of the pile. It's not the best or strongest in a conventional sense.


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It may be "fallacy" ratings, but it's still more factual than saying "people have to hunt to survive in Utah because most of them are too poor to survive". We're still waiting on his facts to back up his bias.

 

[sneaky]

Besides, that link posted was #1 for business, not #1 economy. Should have made that a little more clear when I put that link in there.

 

[dotman]

It may be "fallacy" ratings, but it's still more factual than saying "people have to hunt to survive in Utah because most of them are too poor to survive". We're still waiting on his facts to back up his bias.

I wonder if these people that HAVE to hunt for food live in a shack and drive a 30 year old vehicle. It's amazing to me how some people feel they are just getting by but yet don't look in the mirror of how their finances are handled. I have a feeling if a purchaser is taking these people up the mountain to hunt they are struggling.