Should I sell my CVA Accura V2 to buy 700 Remington ultimate muzzleloader?

[ENCORE]

Agreed on this- if you redline the nicest rifle money can buy with the maximum recommended powder charge using custom ammunition, 400 yards may be doable. Considering that this thread is about a shooter who bought a CVA last year, has six posts and is exploring the range he is capable of shooting, I think it is unethical to advertise the same distances professionals are shooting at national matches as a viable hunting distance.

What the OP is looking for is to extend his hunting/shooting range as he noted in his very first post concerning two very different rifles with extreme differences in capabilities.

Rather a shooter/hunter has been at the sport for decades, or just a new shooter, they will never learn unless they ask questions, the differences are identified, they are willing to learn and to understand, and willing to put in the necessary practice. We don't know the OP's capabilities but, we know evidently he wants to learn.

Long range for muzzleloaders is not 200yds anymore. There isn't a modern inline rifle made today that isn't a MOA or less rifle at 200yds. Long range is considered ranges beyond 200yds.

Each year more and more shooters are questioning, learning, practicing and extending their maximum hunting ranges. Many harvests with production rifles now exceed ranges of 250yds plus each year. These same hunters are not professionals shooting a national matches. They are hunters that have turned into shooters, learning the different contributing factors associated with long range hunting/shooting. They are not hunters that pull their rifle out of the case a couple days before the season and shoot to hit a pie plate at 100yds. They put their time in on the range and learn their capabilities.

I agree that there are hunting situations which are unethical. However, unethical could be associated to that hunter that just gets his rifle out, shoots it twice to make sure "its on" then goes hunting, or, it could also be unethical to shoot at distances beyond the hunter's personal capabilities.
Learn the capabilities of the rifle/s you intend to use or hunt with, then determine your own abilities. The first part is easy...…..

 

[OXN939]

What the OP is looking for is to extend his hunting/shooting range as he noted in his very first post concerning two very different rifles with extreme differences in capabilities.

Rather a shooter/hunter has been at the sport for decades, or just a new shooter, they will never learn unless they ask questions, the differences are identified, they are willing to learn and to understand, and willing to put in the necessary practice. We don't know the OP's capabilities but, we know evidently he wants to learn.

Long range for muzzleloaders is not 200yds anymore. There isn't a modern inline rifle made today that isn't a MOA or less rifle at 200yds. Long range is considered ranges beyond 200yds.

Each year more and more shooters are questioning, learning, practicing and extending their maximum hunting ranges. Many harvests with production rifles now exceed ranges of 250yds plus each year. These same hunters are not professionals shooting a national matches. They are hunters that have turned into shooters, learning the different contributing factors associated with long range hunting/shooting. They are not hunters that pull their rifle out of the case a couple days before the season and shoot to hit a pie plate at 100yds. They put their time in on the range and learn their capabilities.

I agree that there are hunting situations which are unethical. However, unethical could be associated to that hunter that just gets his rifle out, shoots it twice to make sure "its on" then goes hunting, or, it could also be unethical to shoot at distances beyond the hunter's personal capabilities.
Learn the capabilities of the rifle/s you intend to use or hunt with, then determine your own abilities. The first part is easy...…..

Nice.

OP, my original point stands- blackpowder rifles are much more difficult to be consistent with at long ranges than centerfire rifles. Shooting at an animal over 200 yards away is poorly advised until you've got a lot of hunting and range experience under your belt with whichever platform you decide on.

 

[Doughnut man]

285 yrds cva pr

 

[Doughnut man]

285 yrds cva pr

 

[corbhenrie]

I have a 27" CVA Accura v2 and I shoot a parker 327gr black max with 104 gr BH209 by weight with federal 209A primers and a magnum sub base between powder and sabot and I shoot sub moa groups and am capable of shooting 600 yards plus paired with a vortex scope. My father inlaw has a new ultimate 700 and it wont touch my cva in accuracy. Picture is a gallon jug at 600 yards 1 shot.

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[ENCORE]

I have a 27" CVA Accura v2 and I shoot a parker 327gr black max with 104 gr BH209 by weight with federal 209A primers and a magnum sub base between powder and sabot and I shoot sub moa groups and am capable of shooting 600 yards plus paired with a vortex scope. My father inlaw has a new ultimate 700 and it wont touch my cva in accuracy. Picture is a gallon jug at 600 yards 1 shot.

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That charge is well over the maximum recommended by Western and certainly the rifle manufacturer. With that charge and a 325gr bullet, you're over pressuring a production rifle never designed for that amount of pressure.

 

[corbhenrie]

That charge is well over the maximum recommended by Western and certainly the rifle manufacturer. With that charge and a 325gr bullet, you're over pressuring a production rifle never designed for that amount of pressure.

I called CVA upon load development and I was asking about the no excuses .50 cal 495 gr conical and what was recommended powder charge cause I couldn't find a any data and one of they're testing techs said that that gun will handle over 500 gr slug and 120 gr powder triple 7 loose powder and he said if you have any trouble removing the primer from breech plug then that is over pressure and I have no issues removing primers after firing. Shoots like a dream have over 100 rounds through it with no issues.

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[LWH723]

In my experience shotgun primers are not a reliable way to determining pressure. I'm not saying they can't give hints, but there's a lot of factors at play.

 

[ENCORE]

I called CVA upon load development and I was asking about the no excuses .50 cal 495 gr conical and what was recommended powder charge cause I couldn't find a any data and one of they're testing techs said that that gun will handle over 500 gr slug and 120 gr powder triple 7 loose powder and he said if you have any trouble removing the primer from breech plug then that is over pressure and I have no issues removing primers after firing. Shoots like a dream have over 100 rounds through it with no issues.

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In this post, evidently CVA indicates Triple 7 and 120grs, which would be a volume charge, which IMO is still a lot of pressure with a 500gr bullet.

In your other post you mentioned 104grs by weight of BH209. No where in Western's load data will you find that recommendation. In fact, Western lists a maximum of 120grs volume or 84grs by weight.

http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf

 

[crucescrawler]

Lots of options with a base Ultimate 700 these days... here is what I would do if I were in your shoes after selling my CVA
1) Learn about the gun and it's capabilities
2) Arrowhead breech plug mod
3) Muzzle Brake
4) Work up a load using a combo of BH209 and Parker bullets

 

[Fatcamp]

I would put a great optic on your cva and work on your stalking and shooting skills. Much cheaper. Probably will help you kill more animals in the long run and have less lost wounded animals......

So is a base model .50 Accura going to be usable to 250 yards? That distance seems doable for most situations we find ourselves in.

We can't use a magnified optic, but I have a Vortex 1X scope already.

 

[ENCORE]

So is a base model .50 Accura going to be usable to 250 yards? That distance seems doable for most situations we find ourselves in.

We can't use a magnified optic, but I have a Vortex 1X scope already.

250yds is a LONG WAY for hunting with no magnified optic, including the 1x you have. I'm not saying it can't be done, because there are very seasoned shooters shooting long range with peep sights. However, they practice religiously at the longest range they may be shooting while hunting. You're talking hundreds of rounds and more.

Even if you practice at that distance and feel confident, KNOW how your projectile will function at that distance. Bullets are not created the same and some may function properly, while others won't. You'll need to increase your velocity and BC, or increase the bullet weight in most cases.

Long range shots while hunting should not be attempted without first, owning and utilizing a quality range finder, knowing how any wind is going to affect your bullets path, knowing the exact drop of your bullet at all given ranges, knowing how the bullet will function at distance. Punching paper is one thing, a clean harvest is another.

 

[Fatcamp]

I appreciate all of that.

I am a rifleman. Many hours and cost have gone into developing my skill set. I realize the use of a non-magnified optic is an issue and will certainly verify my ability and preferred load for both accuracy and lethality. Per an article I read penned by the Legend I will use a magnified optic to do load development, but my main question is will the Accura be a 2 MOA rifle? That translates mathematically to a five inch group at 250 which gives me some room for error.

My initial thought was to buy the LR in .45, but if I can save $250 and get a rifle legal for Colorado elk that makes sense if I can expect performance out to 250 with a regular Accura.

 

[ENCORE]

………….. my main question is will the Accura be a 2 MOA rifle? That translates mathematically to a five inch group at 250 which gives me some room for error......

Most of the Accura V2 rifles I've been around are capable. The right bullet, enough charge, yes.

 

[CNEDEER]

I have a V2 and love it. The advice to top it with a great scope is critical. Then just practice, practice, practice. I shoot mine to 250 and shoot 3.5 inch groups (which is good for me and I am sure not good enough for others). Again practice.

 

[C.Oshlick]

I was checking out the Accura Mountain Rifles at the Harrisburg sports show a few weeks ago and they balance really well. Definitely considering one

 

[scottprice]

nope! It’s more expensive to shoot and the 700 can’t do anything more than what you currently have

 

[Tradguy]

I lucked out on a RUM 700, found a used one for half the price of a new one on gunbroker. The gentleman that sold it to me installed a timney trigger, only upgrade he did to it. The bore is pristine and gun shoots fantastic so far with triple 7 pellets and harvester scorpion white lightnings. It is a joy to shoot as I love my remington 700 centerfire rifles. I looked around for quite awhile to find a used one but at least in my experience for the price I paid, $450, it is my favorite muzzleloader. I really hope to post a pic of a kansas mule deer on here for this season.

 

[Birddog916]

I don't know much about muzzleloaders in general, but I do own a RUM and am pretty confident with it to 300 yards. I don't do anything special and just shoot the recommended 4 pucks of 777 and the Remington bullets and sabots. The three shot group below is 200 yards. I'm working on trying to close them down a little more, but I'm happy with the RUM overall.

 

[Remy]

I was thinking of getting one in a composite stock but gone custom smokeless full bore in a .45 instead of the ultimate in a .50 with sabots.