Shorty 6 Creeds

[Taudisio]

I want to be above 1800fps at 500yards or better and don’t need to shoot animals further than that. I worked up two test groups so far in the low to mid 2800fps with good results. )

You are way in the weeds except for this part.

2835fps will need the be your rough MV at sea level to get you 1800fps at 500 with the “estimated g7 of .207” hammer states. And it sounds like you’re there. Find accuracy around 2850 and go kill stuff.

 

[Bobrobheimer]

You are way in the weeds except for this part.

2835fps will need the be your rough MV at sea level to get you 1800fps at 500 with the “estimated g7 of .207” hammer states. And it sounds like you’re there. Find accuracy around 2850 and go kill stuff.

Yes, it was more of an academic question that occurred to me as being interesting. With the current jump/seating depth and the load in question 40.8gr or 41gr of H4350 it’s not a compressed load. And I kinda like that it’s got less empty space than it otherwise might cause I imagine shooting steep angles with the powder to the back v front maybe that makes a difference when there’s a lot of room in the case. Again maybe not a relevant difference.

I am mostly not interested in spending a lot of time messing around with seating depth or powder types and frankly would like to just get something good enough and move on to shooting positions and such. That said I do enjoy the theory side of it all and now you all got me wondering about trying a faster powder!

I have already gotten what I need in terms of speed especially because I won’t be hunting below 5000’ above sea level and really probably not below 8000’. 9,000-12,000 is more likely. At least for the foreseeable future.

 

[Taudisio]

Yes, it was more of an academic question that occurred to me as being interesting. With the current jump/seating depth and the load in question 40.8gr or 41gr of H4350 it’s not a compressed load. And I kinda like that it’s got less empty space than it otherwise might cause I imagine shooting steep angles with the powder to the back v front maybe that makes a difference when there’s a lot of room in the case. Again maybe not a relevant difference.

I am mostly not interested in spending a lot of time messing around with seating depth or powder types and frankly would like to just get something good enough and move on to shooting positions and such. That said I do enjoy the theory side of it all and now you all got me wondering about trying a faster powder!

I have already gotten what I need in terms of speed especially because I won’t be hunting below 5000’ above sea level and really probably not below 8000’. 9,000-12,000 is more likely. At least for the foreseeable future.

You’re only talking about hunting out to 500 yards. If you starting shooting long range competitions at the highest level, then you should start concerning yourself about getting into these weeds. Guys have been killing animals out to and beyond 500 yards since the 1800’s with sharps rifles. I wonder if .2 grain differences in powder weight crossed their minds….

 

[Bobrobheimer]

You’re only talking about hunting out to 500 yards. If you starting shooting long range competitions at the highest level, then you should start concerning yourself about getting into these weeds. Guys have been killing animals out to and beyond 500 yards since the 1800’s with sharps rifles. I wonder if .2 grain differences in powder weight crossed their minds….

Haha. Fair. I do shoot an nrl hunter a year and enjoy the cold bore challenge - which is a reason why I am only talking about hunting out to 500yards. But you are right I am not a competitive shooter. I do like to be confident that everything is my own fault though!

 

[The Guide]

Haha. Fair. I do shoot an nrl hunter a year and enjoy the cold bore challenge - which is a reason why I am only talking about hunting out to 500yards. But you are right I am not a competitive shooter. I do like to be confident that everything is my own fault though!

Less mental gymnastics and more shooting makes 500 yards pretty easy for a properly setup rifle with a shooter who has basic principles of marksmanship down. When you're the same rifle for 200 to 500 rounds a year, you will become a much better shooter. Sometimes we chase rabbit holes on hunting ammo when we should be at the range with cheap (accurate) ammo shooting positionally to make us more comfortable making the shot. I shoot cheap AAC 77tmk in a 223 and just got some cheap AAC 140gr Sabre Blade Black Tips in 6.5CM to practice with. I'm around 5k rounds so far this year with rimfire and centerfire cartridges. I would get a quality load for hunting and buy some cheap range ammo that your rifle likes and shoot 100 rounds of range ammo for every 20 rounds of hunting ammo. Once you have 200 rounds of range ammo and 40 rounds of hunting ammo shot in positional settings from 200 to 500 yards, you're comfortably ready for most situations you'll find in the field and you will know your firearm intimately.

Jay

 

[Bobrobheimer]

Less mental gymnastics and more shooting makes 500 yards pretty easy for a properly setup rifle with a shooter who has basic principles of marksmanship down. When you're the same rifle for 200 to 500 rounds a year, you will become a much better shooter. Sometimes we chase rabbit holes on hunting ammo when we should be at the range with cheap (accurate) ammo shooting positionally to make us more comfortable making the shot. I shoot cheap AAC 77tmk in a 223 and just got some cheap AAC 140gr Sabre Blade Black Tips in 6.5CM to practice with. I'm around 5k rounds so far this year with rimfire and centerfire cartridges. I would get a quality load for hunting and buy some cheap range ammo that your rifle likes and shoot 100 rounds of range ammo for every 20 rounds of hunting ammo. Once you have 200 rounds of range ammo and 40 rounds of hunting ammo shot in positional settings from 200 to 500 yards, you're comfortably ready for most situations you'll find in the field and you will know your firearm intimately.

Jay

I certainly agree with everything you and others have said to the effect of it doesn’t really matter for my purposes. That said I do think it’s still an interesting question and possibly relevant to others looking to load for short barrels.

 

[The Guide]

I certainly agree with everything you and others have said to the effect of it doesn’t really matter for my purposes. That said I do think it’s still an interesting question and possibly relevant to others looking to load for short barrels.

I would rather load at the optimal neck junction and use a full charge of powder to get speed/pressure than rely upon neck tension on a stuffed bullet to get pressure. Neck tension only goes up from the time you place the bullet until you shoot it. You will slowly get pressure fusion between the bullet and the neck. This will increase your pressure over time. This will cause a safe load near the time it was loaded to potentially become unsafe over time.

Changing powders and finding the one that gives you the most speed with the best accuracy and the least amount of unburnt powder out the end of the barrel is the correct way to do it. But innovation comes from people trying something different. If you feel your theory is logical and are willing to report your findings, I look forward to the results.

Jay

 

[Bobrobheimer]

I would rather load at the optimal neck junction and use a full charge of powder to get speed/pressure than rely upon neck tension on a stuffed bullet to get pressure. Neck tension only goes up from the time you place the bullet until you shoot it. You will slowly get pressure fusion between the bullet and the neck. This will increase your pressure over time. This will cause a safe load near the time it was loaded to potentially become unsafe over time.

Changing powders and finding the one that gives you the most speed with the best accuracy and the least amount of unburnt powder out the end of the barrel is the correct way to do it. But innovation comes from people trying something different. If you feel your theory is logical and are willing to report your findings, I look forward to the results.

Jay

To be fair I wasn’t really wanting to or setting out to jamb the bullet deep - for no reason in particular I didn’t want to have the first hammer power band exposed and so I figured I would try it all the way in to start.

That’s a 90gr HHT and a 95gr factory Berger:

 

[Bobrobheimer]

I would rather load at the optimal neck junction and use a full charge of powder to get speed/pressure than rely upon neck tension on a stuffed bullet to get pressure. Neck tension only goes up from the time you place the bullet until you shoot it. You will slowly get pressure fusion between the bullet and the neck. This will increase your pressure over time. This will cause a safe load near the time it was loaded to potentially become unsafe over time.

Changing powders and finding the one that gives you the most speed with the best accuracy and the least amount of unburnt powder out the end of the barrel is the correct way to do it. But innovation comes from people trying something different. If you feel your theory is logical and are willing to report your findings, I look forward to the results.

Jay

But also - what faster powder would be a first try of yours?

 

[khuber84]

I've found that if you have 2 drive bands in the neck, you want 004 neck tension. If you can get 3 drive bands in the neck, 003 works well too. I typically load hammers 0.020 off lands, and will test a medium pressure load with 003 and 004 nk tension. One will show better accuracy and es. I then up the powder till I get psi signs, drop 1 full grain and see how it shoots. Hammers will usually shoot well under moa with this simple process. With a hammer in a 6cm, I'd be trying h4350, varget, rl15.5 and N150. Saami 6cm has a fair bit of freebore, 0.182 so make use of it.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I'm really wanting to rebarrel the Sig Cross to a 6 Creed.
I was using Chat GPT to compare specs. Velocities to a grand and drift between a 16 and 18". Seems pretty nill between the two.

Thinking a 16" would be great with my ultra 7. Especially making it easier for the kid to pack around.
I thought I heard the EXO guy using a 16".

Anyone else using a 16"? What powders and speeds are you using and getting?

Should be just fine for dealing dirt naps out to 5-600.

Getting this back on topic…

I’m putting together another 6 creed because I can’t seem to not have 6mms in my life. Despite knowing that my 22CM sort of makes it a redundant gun for killing.

This one will be a 16” Tikka 6 Creed with the OG suppressor . Planning to load 108 ELDMs with a 7.5 twist barrel.

When I run some projected numbers, the 108s at 1,800 FPS impact velocity will take me to roughly 700 yards.