MTNHUNTER76
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2022
- Messages
- 135
Yes, if equipped. Make sure that feature is good to 600yds.
Shooting 600 yards, have i got this right?
- Thread starter Trackselk
- Start date
woods89
WKR
There are much more experienced people posting here giving you good advice. I'd just reiterate, everything needs to be field verified. 600 yds is not easy unless your are shooting well into 4 digits of rounds a year.
And I don't know where you hunt, but if you're not going to deal with the wind, you might as well not play at that range, at least for western hunting. Where we hunt its always windy. Maybe you will have those windless opportunities hunting fields in the Midwest or East, but the mountains are a windy place.
A fun thing I did at my buddies place last year after our tags were filled last year was a 5 round mag dump, as fast as I could, on a vital size steel gong at 600 yds. Fundamentals are tough, and when you add speed they can really bite you!
I shoot the same bullet, 143gr ELD Hornady Precision Hunter with a Leupold 6-20.
I can shoot out to 400 yards all day long from any position, even in strong wind with the 6.5CM. And I dont get lost in the details related to elevation, temp, or other options from Strolek Pro.
I shoot regularly and would be reluctant to take a shot at 600 yards. Not impossible, but everything would need to be perfect to push out that far on game.
I'd echo what this fellow says:
" I'd just reiterate, everything needs to be field verified. 600 yds is not easy unless your are shooting well into 4 digits of rounds a year."
I can shoot out to 400 yards all day long from any position, even in strong wind with the 6.5CM. And I dont get lost in the details related to elevation, temp, or other options from Strolek Pro.
I shoot regularly and would be reluctant to take a shot at 600 yards. Not impossible, but everything would need to be perfect to push out that far on game.
I'd echo what this fellow says:
" I'd just reiterate, everything needs to be field verified. 600 yds is not easy unless your are shooting well into 4 digits of rounds a year."
- Thread Starter
- #24
Thanks for setting me strait fellas. I passed up 2 seperate shots at 400 last year on a BOAL, and even though some other guys killed it the next morning, I'm still glad I didn't shoot. I just couldn't get a steady enough rest for the imperfect shot. If he'd have been perfectly broadside and I wasn't shooting from a steep hillside, at a steep upward angle I probably would have pulled it off. Still glad I didn't shoot. I've lost a lot of animals that way, but never wounded one I didn't shoot at.
Luckily I have enough experience to not shoot unless the crosshairs are steady. 600 will likely never happen for me, but at least now I can try to meet the challenge. Sure would up my success rate on big bucks in the arid high open country that I hunt. Yeah, it's windy too dammit!
Luckily I have enough experience to not shoot unless the crosshairs are steady. 600 will likely never happen for me, but at least now I can try to meet the challenge. Sure would up my success rate on big bucks in the arid high open country that I hunt. Yeah, it's windy too dammit!
- Thread Starter
- #25
Stinky Coyote
WKR
you can go very simple with a 6.5 CM as a ~600 yard hunting rig, I like the studying of ballistics scenarios you are doing to get the 40,000' view of your gears capability, keep going with that, run all scenarios you can and compare the changes at 600
find your elevation range, low to high, find your temp range average over the seasons you hunt, run your ballistics every 1000' from your low to high ranges
you'll start to notice a pattern that you'll only be out 1-2 clicks at the outer distances at the most extreme ends of your shooting ranges and temps...not an issue for big game kill zones is what you'll see if you set up in the middle, coyotes at 600 at lower elevation and -30 degrees yes you will likely be out far enough to just scare them, sheep up high at 600 in the thinner air you may hit a couple inches high...not a biggie
then as you start shooting more, no matter how accurate the rifle may be it will almost always be more accurate than you...you will discover that you have a pretty repeatable field accuracy for 3 shot groups of say 3/4 to 1 1/4 moa which will more define your distance limits on game than the atmospheric conditions, a lot of shooters will land in this range and that's part of the reason you find a lot of shooters have similar 600 yard upper limits on game etc. I'm pretty good with 3/4 moa in the field for 3 shot groups most of the time so happy to play within those practical self limits, I've found the past 15 years I can do all of this with factory rifles and ammo to boot, and so I do
in Alberta where I live we can hunt prairies to mountain tops, pronghorn to sheep, my typical shoot range is about 3500' to 8500' (26-22 inhg), we coyote hunt in winter also so lower elev. and colder temps, so fall/winter average daytime highs over that period end up around 41f or 5c and running the dope to be within 1 or 2 clicks out max in most scenarios landed me at baseline setup of 5000' or 25 inhg and 5c temp (just set humidity at 50% always, it won't be something you have to worry about)...so set and forget, have your holds or your dial up to match that middling average and you don't need ballistics calcs or programs or anything complicated while actually out there, I have tested this dope set up on single cold shots afield from 575-700-930 yards and still would have killed whatever imaginary sheep I was testing at, it's actually easier to over compensate a correction click or two thinking you're higher than you are or it's colder than it is and put yourself further out than had you just not trusted the middling data to begin with, ie' I backed off a couple clicks (or 4.5") on a 930 yard test shot thinking I was closer to 9000' across that basin and landed 5" low of point of aim with those 2 clicks, had I trusted the data and my initial set up I would have damn near hit perfect, I was lower in elevation than I thought in that example, felt I had climbed much higher lol and it looked much higher, a 700 yard I took was perfect and I didn't try to over think a 1 or 2 click variance, so set up to 600 will be very close and well inside kill zones of big game without needing any help from gear, ballistics programs or brain power to be effective, a simple rangefinder and understanding some wind reading and freezer will be full
after that your best use of time will be to develop your wind strategy, again study all the speeds, the averages you're likely to encounter, combined with your experiences while shooting on steel etc. you'll see how you may want to deal with wind, whether it's reticle reference, or hold in inches from target reference...the data you see will guide you there as well, aim for simplicity and most likely to revert to subconsciously when you go on auto-pilot as we often do when it's time to close the deal on real animals
and yes on shooting at distance yourself, you'll wanna spend time shooting steel ~500 yards to see what your abilities are and your comfort levels will come from that, if you can hover near moa for 3 shot groups routinely at 500 a 600 will be similar, you don't have to practice at your outer limit distance to know but you want to be very confident at 75-80% of that
find your elevation range, low to high, find your temp range average over the seasons you hunt, run your ballistics every 1000' from your low to high ranges
you'll start to notice a pattern that you'll only be out 1-2 clicks at the outer distances at the most extreme ends of your shooting ranges and temps...not an issue for big game kill zones is what you'll see if you set up in the middle, coyotes at 600 at lower elevation and -30 degrees yes you will likely be out far enough to just scare them, sheep up high at 600 in the thinner air you may hit a couple inches high...not a biggie
then as you start shooting more, no matter how accurate the rifle may be it will almost always be more accurate than you...you will discover that you have a pretty repeatable field accuracy for 3 shot groups of say 3/4 to 1 1/4 moa which will more define your distance limits on game than the atmospheric conditions, a lot of shooters will land in this range and that's part of the reason you find a lot of shooters have similar 600 yard upper limits on game etc. I'm pretty good with 3/4 moa in the field for 3 shot groups most of the time so happy to play within those practical self limits, I've found the past 15 years I can do all of this with factory rifles and ammo to boot, and so I do
in Alberta where I live we can hunt prairies to mountain tops, pronghorn to sheep, my typical shoot range is about 3500' to 8500' (26-22 inhg), we coyote hunt in winter also so lower elev. and colder temps, so fall/winter average daytime highs over that period end up around 41f or 5c and running the dope to be within 1 or 2 clicks out max in most scenarios landed me at baseline setup of 5000' or 25 inhg and 5c temp (just set humidity at 50% always, it won't be something you have to worry about)...so set and forget, have your holds or your dial up to match that middling average and you don't need ballistics calcs or programs or anything complicated while actually out there, I have tested this dope set up on single cold shots afield from 575-700-930 yards and still would have killed whatever imaginary sheep I was testing at, it's actually easier to over compensate a correction click or two thinking you're higher than you are or it's colder than it is and put yourself further out than had you just not trusted the middling data to begin with, ie' I backed off a couple clicks (or 4.5") on a 930 yard test shot thinking I was closer to 9000' across that basin and landed 5" low of point of aim with those 2 clicks, had I trusted the data and my initial set up I would have damn near hit perfect, I was lower in elevation than I thought in that example, felt I had climbed much higher lol and it looked much higher, a 700 yard I took was perfect and I didn't try to over think a 1 or 2 click variance, so set up to 600 will be very close and well inside kill zones of big game without needing any help from gear, ballistics programs or brain power to be effective, a simple rangefinder and understanding some wind reading and freezer will be full
after that your best use of time will be to develop your wind strategy, again study all the speeds, the averages you're likely to encounter, combined with your experiences while shooting on steel etc. you'll see how you may want to deal with wind, whether it's reticle reference, or hold in inches from target reference...the data you see will guide you there as well, aim for simplicity and most likely to revert to subconsciously when you go on auto-pilot as we often do when it's time to close the deal on real animals
and yes on shooting at distance yourself, you'll wanna spend time shooting steel ~500 yards to see what your abilities are and your comfort levels will come from that, if you can hover near moa for 3 shot groups routinely at 500 a 600 will be similar, you don't have to practice at your outer limit distance to know but you want to be very confident at 75-80% of that
- Thread Starter
- #27
Many thanks for that thorough response stinky coyote! I was wondering about running averages on the atmospheric stuff since those factors are so minute at 600.
Looking forward to 400, 500, and maybe 600 if I can hold the groups out that far!
Looking forward to 400, 500, and maybe 600 if I can hold the groups out that far!
THLR
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2020
- Messages
- 292
You are not wrong and Stinky Coyote especially decribed it well. I have a two-season tutorial on the subject on YouTube if you prefer a visual explanation on how I basically do the same thing, cannot link film here because of forum rules (THLR.NO, ep 354 would be a starting point. Ep 355 show that angle thing you asked about).
There is a difference between range LR and efficiency in the field, the biggest is WHERE on the timeline you make the decision to shoot and what info you'll be able to take from your environment (because of how the brain works). Not really a big deal, but some competent shooters fail to be efficient killers because of training deficiencies. Or rather, considering the amount of resources you move to get you into that right spot/time for that one shooting opportunity... it IS a big deal.
But you seem to understand correctly and I'd say you are on the right track. The ballistics you can do before your trip, windcall can be done walking in, and after deciding to shoot, the trigger time is only 2-4 seconds. I'd focus my training on the 20 seconds before the trigger, that's where you get the natural point of aim on your target. Ballistics and range is basically simple physics, not a variable like the position, dial-to-range and you're done.
Good luck!
(scope: I'd not limit myself to 6x. It is so nice to just turn magnification up and assess rather than switching to binos or spotting scope)
There is a difference between range LR and efficiency in the field, the biggest is WHERE on the timeline you make the decision to shoot and what info you'll be able to take from your environment (because of how the brain works). Not really a big deal, but some competent shooters fail to be efficient killers because of training deficiencies. Or rather, considering the amount of resources you move to get you into that right spot/time for that one shooting opportunity... it IS a big deal.
But you seem to understand correctly and I'd say you are on the right track. The ballistics you can do before your trip, windcall can be done walking in, and after deciding to shoot, the trigger time is only 2-4 seconds. I'd focus my training on the 20 seconds before the trigger, that's where you get the natural point of aim on your target. Ballistics and range is basically simple physics, not a variable like the position, dial-to-range and you're done.
Good luck!
(scope: I'd not limit myself to 6x. It is so nice to just turn magnification up and assess rather than switching to binos or spotting scope)
Last edited:
- Thread Starter
- #29
That makes a lot of sense. Position is what blew my BOAL shot last year, I need to fix that for sure.
If anyone knows a good solid scope article I'd love to see it. I read so much conflicting info that I just went with the simple fixed SWFA because its supposed to work and not weigh a ton. I also figured that I'm new to dialing, so I'd have one less thing to screw up with one power lol
If anyone knows a good solid scope article I'd love to see it. I read so much conflicting info that I just went with the simple fixed SWFA because its supposed to work and not weigh a ton. I also figured that I'm new to dialing, so I'd have one less thing to screw up with one power lol
Compilation of Formidilosus posts
Hopefully this doesn't step on any toes. I've found Formid's posts to be incredibly useful and have spent more time than I care to admit digging through his posts. Attached are a few of the "core" posts I have saved for reference and to share with friends. To be clear, this is all Formid's...
www.rokslide.com
Here's a bunch of links to Form's posts I put together, some good info on wind brackets and using the SWFA in there.
Lawnboi
WKR
Less magnification is actually ideal when shooting a lighter hunting rifle, helps spot shots and hides some flinch inducing wobble. While 6x is a little on the light end in my opinion you want to generally be on the lowest setting you have to be in a hunting situation in my opinion. Makes for easier spotting, faster follow ups and faster at tracking where it goes.
The best thing you could do is shoot some Kraft drills from field positions in my opinion. Knowing how to make a steady position and execute a clean trigger press with a hunting weight rifle takes some finesse. On top of that the easier it is for you to get extremely steady quickly allows more focus to be emphasized on a good trigger press.
I wouldn’t even worry about learning wind till you can hold sub 2moa from field positions, all the time. Same goes for worrying about minute changes in environment.
The best thing you could do is shoot some Kraft drills from field positions in my opinion. Knowing how to make a steady position and execute a clean trigger press with a hunting weight rifle takes some finesse. On top of that the easier it is for you to get extremely steady quickly allows more focus to be emphasized on a good trigger press.
I wouldn’t even worry about learning wind till you can hold sub 2moa from field positions, all the time. Same goes for worrying about minute changes in environment.
TxxAgg
WKR
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2019
- Messages
- 2,149
I really enjoy all your videos. Keep up the great work.
- Thread Starter
- #33
Wow, you all are great! Thanks for the wealth of information. I'll be reading, watching vids, and shooting a ton before I extend my hunting shots. Very interested in the shooting from field positions, and drills. Next thing you know, I might just have to get a heavy long range rifle for steel!
Stinky Coyote
WKR
Find the original 3 DVD set from best of the west. 2-3 DVD’s from recollection. It’s where all this started. It’s a great foundation and you can still set up very similar and it’s far more hunt friendly that the target setups of late (prc). Sounds like you like to be a student so may as well see what got us all here.
- Thread Starter
- #35
Thanks again! I'll definitely look into that asap. Hopefully I make some progress on this before this hunting season. Likely going to take me at least a year at the current rate though, dammit
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 9,922
THLR video series on YouTube is by leaps and bounds the best available for hunting practice and setup.
- Thread Starter
- #37
I'll check it out, thank you!
Highly recommend Cleckner's book too:
Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting: Cleckner, Ryan M: 9781518654725: Amazon.com: Books
Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting [Cleckner, Ryan M] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting
www.amazon.com
Woodrow F Call
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2019
- Messages
- 165
Can you tell me what the name of the folks who put this out is? Want to make sure I'm looking at the right videos.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 9,922
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