Shoot2Hunt University

[Ryan Avery]

Form, Jake, Mason, Tanya, and I are setting up targets for the S2HU Class in June. It's going to be a blast! The ranch is scenic and perfect for a shooting school.

 

[khuber84]

Now if only there were an R8 Professional Rokstok....

If making a 6cm or 6prc R8 barrel wasn't such a fn rabbit hole to jump into!

 

[Fever Buck]

Finally getting around to this.

This was a good group is guys who were good sports about things.

I’m going to use this/these as sort of a record of what is seen during courses. This is useful because it offers a much broader picture than a single point of reference, and it is encompassing because you are seeing different people and equipment used side by side in real use.


Notes of the shooters:

Overall this group on average is what has shown to be very high in the normal population and about average for “serious” shooters. That means that they could zero and use their rifle with no help (of some level) understood how to zero (of some level), and could shoot with no major failures in basic functional handling.

One had paid attention and applied as much as he could from posts here and elsewhere and it showed. He still had some holes in technique, but general ability and gun handling was obviously above the others.


Equipment:

A range of rifles and scopes. We had 3 out of 5 people start with MOA scopes. 2x Leupold scopes, 4x SWFA’s, and 2x Mavens- there were a couple others that I didn’t note. Two Remington based custom in a chassis. One a DTA. And three with Tikkas of various versions.


Observed shooter issues:

The usual- body positions generally were poor. Small to medium issues with gunhandling both “safety” and speed. Recoil anticipation. Inability to build a consistent position and rebuild it, etc., etc.

Multiple issues with too much magnification and inability to find the target in during times events.

All but one shooter had basically no ability to get shots off/get decent shots off in time during the hunting rifle drill.

Massive issues from all in grouping and POI when having to build the position for each shot, and then brake it to start again.

The 10 round untimed, prone groups were average- that is 2.5-5 MOA, and not centered. Despite what people of the internet say, laughably few people can lay down and put 10 rounds in a 2 MOA dot at 100 yards on demand.

All but two people stated that they felt comfortable, and would shoot a deer between 400 and 600’ish yards, one said 700 yards, and one said 200 yards. Every person would have missed an 8” target at 200 yards with at least one of their first 10 prone untimed shots.



Observed equipment issues:

A Tikka trigger that was removed for a barrel swap was loose and caused the firing pin to be released when closing the action- tightening it up stopped it. This is not unusual- don’t screw with factory Tikka triggers. Adding a lighter spring, unscrewing the trigger housing, etc all greatly increase the probability of issues.
Adjust them to the lightest setting from factory and that’s it. If you have removed it, take it apart, degrease, thread lock, and tighten- tight.


Lots/most stocks and barrels were not sufficiently free-floated and had intermittent contact causing grouping issues- you want to be able to throw a dead cat through the gap.

There were a few action/scope screws that came loose, causing loss of zero.

The DTA was a 223 conversion and would not eject about 50% of the time. As well, it grouped very poorly for the shooter. He eventually switched to my rifle and performance was as expected.


DTA-
View attachment 709818

A little over 24 hours later with my T3, 20 rounds-

View attachment 709819



2x (maybe 3) scopes failed. One was the Eval March 1.5-15x that I was using- the SFP and FFP reticles “de collimated”, and it had a point of impact shift of .4 mil left. The second, and possibly third scope as well- was a Leupold with a wandering 2’ish MOA zero from car rides, plus random shifts while shooting. This went away with a scope swap.

The custom action (M700 based) rifle shot well, but had bad bolt bind (as they all do) and the shooter had to modify his technique to run it successfully- he was slower and more problem proned regardless. This went away when he used one of our Tikkas for a while.

A suppressor adapter was contacting the first baffle on one rifle and causing a POI shift when the barrel heated up. A spacer corrected the issue.



I believe that is the gist of the main issues noted. None of those are surprising at all, and they happen in all user communities. Overall this group of guys were good and above average. Each had some issues to work through, but generally learned and applied corrections…. Though they did respond to harassment more than most. shrug




The main takeaways are-

Solid rifle that is reliable and doesn’t bolt bind assembled correctly.

Chassis suck for all around field shooting.

Scopes that have a very low probability of failure. Mil/mil with properly designed FFP reticle is the way.

Somewhere between 6-8x is the most used and appropriate magnification for shooting even to very long ranges given all factors.

Recoil matters. The less the gun recoils and the less muzzle blast and noise there is, the better shooting that happens, the more people can shoot, the more they see their own impacts, and the more they learn from every shot. This is a feedback loop that exaggerates the more it is done.

Fast twist, properly setup 223’s with good bullets are the single greatest teaching and shooting aid that exists. All brought 223’s for use for practice but only one was planing to/willing to use it on the bear hunt. All brought larger cartridges and calibers- most were magnums and they were adamant that they were going to use those for the hunt. By the end of the 3 days, everyone but one chose their 223 for the hunt, and the one stated he didn’t due to a lack of hunting ammo for it.

Form, noticed you said most students really only needed to use 6-8x for most shooting. How far out would you say a 10x scope like the NXS 2.5-10 would allow you to comfortably shoot at hunting size targets?

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, noticed you said most students really only needed to use 6-8x for most shooting. How far out would you say a 10x scope like the NXS 2.5-10 would allow you to comfortably shoot at hunting size targets?

It’s not really magnification for range- it’s definition and reticle. 10x with most reticles is easy on 12” white plates to way beyond where you will shoot- we shoot 12” white plates all the time past 1,200 yards with 6x scopes.
However, that drops a bit depending on the target definition- a blended in deer in a grassy hill side with a setting sun creates way less target definition and in that case you need more mag to see the same things.

In general 1x per 100 yards is sufficient for deer sized game and vitals in most situations. 1.5x is optimum for normal situations, and sufficient for low definition situations.

 

[fisherman983]

What's the cost to rent a rifle/purchase enough ammo for the class?

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[IDVortex]

Been talking to my wife about wanting to do a shooting course, mainly to get way more comfortable and also lack of proper training and piss poor habits. But now reading and listening to the pod casts, it sounds if one goes to the course, make sure you have a good scope.

Is there a list one can sign up to be notified of anyone who might drop out of a class and there's a spot that opens up last minute?

 

[Ryan Avery]

What's the cost to rent a rifle/purchase enough ammo for the class?

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Rifle is $50 a day. Ammo is supply price dependent.

 

[gbflyer]

That would be a real kick. Wish I was closer. Cool of you guys to put this on. Lots of work.

 

[Ryan Avery]

 

[Ryan Avery]

Been talking to my wife about wanting to do a shooting course, mainly to get way more comfortable and also lack of proper training and piss poor habits. But now reading and listening to the pod casts, it sounds if one goes to the course, make sure you have a good scope.

Is there a list one can sign up to be notified of anyone who might drop out of a class and there's a spot that opens up last minute?

yeah, email [email protected]

 

[Ryan Avery]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[BjornF16]

If making a 6cm or 6prc R8 barrel wasn't such a fn rabbit hole to jump into!

Just get a 6XC

 

[BjornF16]

Now if only there were an R8 Professional Rokstok....

If you’re really interested, commit to one. We need a few more to get’r done

Blaser R8 in a Rokstok survey

Looking to gauge interest in Blaser R8 owners to get into a Rokstok for their Blaser R8 Professional rifle, making it a solid long range capable rig. If you're an R8 Professional owner and would be willing to commit to buying a Rokstok for your R8, then vote "YES". Looks like we would need a...

rokslide.com

 

[khuber84]

Just get a 6XC

Problem with 6xc, there are several different reamers, some brass is for XC, other brass if for XC2, original chambers were designed to fireform 22-250 in them. It's an oddball that saami was never awarded. Norma brass(being European manufacture) prob works with the blaser chamber, but Norma isn't as good as Peterson or alpha. A damn 6cm would be a heck of a lot easier.

 

[BjornF16]

Problem with 6xc, there are several different reamers, some brass is for XC, other brass if for XC2, original chambers were designed to fireform 22-250 in them. It's an oddball that saami was never awarded. Norma brass(being European manufacture) prob works with the blaser chamber, but Norma isn't as good as Peterson or alpha. A damn 6cm would be a heck of a lot easier.

Blaser 6 XC using Norma brass (Peterson was same). Doesn’t seem to be much of a problem to me…

 

[khuber84]

Blaser 6 XC using Norma brass (Peterson was same). Doesn’t seem to be much of a problem to me…

View attachment 723688

Glad it's working for you, I'd just rather not add another cartridge to the stable when I've already got a plethora of Lapua 6cm brass and dies on the press. I've got a buddy running 6xc with Peterson brass and it's a hammer, I'm just not interested in it.

 

[NSI]

Evan and I are proofed, packed, and ready to get our asses kicked. Excited to meet our cadre and cohort tonight.



Best,
-J

 

[Nbowlin]

A person should take advantage of this opportunity being offered to them. Pretty special circumstance to have a person with the level of experience willing to help the average person. Probably should not play the “I will catch the next one” type deal.
Go to learn and you will.

Thank you to the staff who baked in the sun with us and the Gypsy King for taking the time.

 

[NSI]

This class encompasses and goes beyond the modern field killing methodology Form and Ryan have espoused on the forum and podcast over the last few years. Our cohort had intermediate and advanced shooters by any external standard, but we all grew geometrically in capability by the end of the week.

Form, Dan, Chris, Randy, Mikey, and Ryan gave their all to us, until midnight 5 nights in a row. The result was a huge reduction in time from target ID to hit for all of us, from a variety of field expedient positions.

Beyond the quality of training and terrain, the camaraderie and chow were highlights. If you have that niggling thought that you could be more efficient and accurate behind the gun, this class is for you - regardless of where you are right now.

Here’s to a reunion ASAP, my Ninjas.

-J

 

[Bluumoon]

Only thing I regret was not doing the whole course, bear hunt was great, the shooting was better.

Any of your class members near SW CO? Would be nice to get together and do some shooting w people who have done the course.