Sheep rifle attributes?

[thinhorn_AK]

Just when I thought perhaps the non residents of Alaska MUST be guided for sheep, goats and grizzly is just “un- America” type of law it gets reinforced with me to stay on the books with cluesless hunters such as the op for this thread!

“Capable of making 1000 yd hits” hopefully a sheep guide with some common sense whether it be Alaska or Canada could talk you out of that poor judgment call if you were to ever attemp such irresponsible behavior.

Other hunters especially sheep hunters need to call this kind of crap out.

With your flawed logic a once in a lifetime trip deserves to have animal shot a from irresponsible distances??

Again one more reason for these non resident must be guided laws!

I know my guiding outfit would never allow this type of BS.

Yup.

 

[Trial153]

I built a sheep bow once .... I am good out to about 70ish...

I love reading these rifle treads, I actually get an urge to go hunt something with a rifle for a minute, you guys put some serious thought in this stuff. Though I admit the ranges listed seem baffling to this bow hunter.

 

[USMC-40]

Just when I thought perhaps the non residents of Alaska MUST be guided for sheep, goats and grizzly is just “un- America” type of law it gets reinforced with me to stay on the books with cluesless hunters such as the op for this thread!

“Capable of making 1000 yd hits” hopefully a sheep guide with some common sense whether it be Alaska or Canada could talk you out of that poor judgment call if you were to ever attemp such irresponsible behavior.

Other hunters especially sheep hunters need to call this kind of crap out.

With your flawed logic a once in a lifetime trip deserves to have animal shot a from irresponsible distances??

Again one more reason for these non resident must be guided laws!

I know my guiding outfit would never allow this type of BS.

Ok - let’s set a couple things straight. With practice a 1000 yard shot with a Gucci caliber gun is not difficult, irresponsible, unethical or whatever else you can call it. In my previous life I witnessed a shithead that was shot at 1353 yards with a 7.62 (.308) chambered M40A5.

as long as the equipment is capable, and the practice is there, it is FAR from difficult.

 

[FURMAN]

Just when I thought perhaps the non residents of Alaska MUST be guided for sheep, goats and grizzly is just “un- America” type of law it gets reinforced with me to stay on the books with cluesless hunters such as the op for this thread!

“Capable of making 1000 yd hits” hopefully a sheep guide with some common sense whether it be Alaska or Canada could talk you out of that poor judgment call if you were to ever attemp such irresponsible behavior.

Other hunters especially sheep hunters need to call this kind of crap out.

With your flawed logic a once in a lifetime trip deserves to have animal shot a from irresponsible distances??

Again one more reason for these non resident must be guided laws!

I know my guiding outfit would never allow this type of BS.

You are the clueless one here I can assure you my 1k shot is far more "responsible" than half the guys who shoot their gun once a year to zero. I know where my bullet is going. I can assure you many of the hunters who talk like you can't say the same. I also now know I will never own one of your rifles or use your outfit. Please keep your crap out of this thread.

 

[FURMAN]

Ok - let’s set a couple things straight. With practice a 1000 yard shot with a Gucci caliber gun is not difficult, irresponsible, unethical or whatever else you can call it. In my previous life I witnessed a shithead that was shot at 1353 yards with a 7.62 (.308) chambered M40A5.

as long as the equipment is capable, and the practice is there, it is FAR from difficult.

Only people who don't have the skills, equipment, or knowledge of their equipment make statements like the guy above you. I will be the first to admit there are many who shoot at animals long range that shouldn't. I am not one of them.

This thread is not about shot distances. It is about rifles. I don't agree with everyone else choices and they probably don't agree with mine. Somehow we kept it cordial until this guy.

 

[204guy]

This has to be one of the oddest threads on this forum. It had potential to be good but just feels way "off".

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[USMC-40]

Sorry for de-railing.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Playing devils advocate - Steve, are you guys willing to take traditional archers on sheep hunts? What is max range you’d allow them to shoot? Should guides be required for Alaska residents who laugh about burning a box of bullets to kill a sheep?

Personally, there ain’t a chance in hell I’d take a 1000 yard shot on a sheep hunt I had $25k into. Especially with the winds in sheep country. I have a hard time knowing what others are capable of though.

Wind

Slim to none that ANYBODY can make shots like that reliably with the wind going in all kinds of different directions. Let alone how long it potentially could take to get to that ram if a poor hit. I’m glad there are other hunters who wouldn’t take such an irresponsible shot.

Deep down inside I wrestle with “non resident must be guided” laws here in Alaska. Even though I guide 3-4 sheep hunts a year, I still fundamentally feel it’s not right.

But it’s hard to take that position when there are guys like this op who would advocate doing this kind of stuff. It flat out comes from ignorance so I personally don’t blame him just sad that he puts wild ideas into prospective future sheep hunters that it is common practice which it’s not! The last 6 sheep hunts I guided ranges are: 187, 131, 367, 212, 465, 238

These long range shooters are ALL the same that I have guided. They know it all and can’t be told any different. This op is no different. Did you read through the entire thread. Arrogant, know it all, I’m right is all I got from his question from day one of this thread. Even though he phrased it as a question, it clearly was not.

These guys get into our camps and get a reality check day one. And the ones who brag the most are the poorest marksman.

So no I don’t believe the guy burning through a box of shells shooting at a ram who is a resident needs to have a guide. Personally I hope they spend more time at the range shooting. But seeing non resident think like this op does, I lean towards keeping the status quo in our state of Alaska and they need their hands held because of ignorance.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Only people who don't have the skills, equipment, or knowledge of their equipment make statements like the guy above you. I will be the first to admit there are many who shoot at animals long range that shouldn't. I am not one of them.

This thread is not about shot distances. It is about rifles. I don't agree with everyone else choices and they probably don't agree with mine. Somehow we kept it cordial until this guy.

Actually you made it about shot distance with your last statement. I deal with many Rokslide members and for the most part are good dudes when they show up for a hunt but this kind of irresponsible behavior infects impressionable folks and has no business in sheep country or any type of Mtn hunting for that matter.

Bottom line must be guided laws for sheep are there for a reason. And back in the day when they came about it was not for guys shooting at irresponsible distances but our technology evolved and people seem to think that is ok to do and it clearly is not. Unfortunately a few bad apples can infect the entire crop. And it is a good thing must be guided laws are still on the books I guess in Alaska and Canada.

BTW there is not a chance I would ever guide someone thinking they are going to shoot at those distances you advocate your rifle being capable of doing. The outfitters I work for feel the same. We have more than enough booked clients that would never consider irresponsible shooting distances.

Again responsible sheep hunters need to call this kind of crap out and I’m glad a few have. Thank you.

 

[justin davis]

I think accuracy and weight are sheep rifle attributes

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

You are the clueless one here I can assure you my 1k shot is far more "responsible" than half the guys who shoot their gun once a year to zero. I know where my bullet is going. I can assure you many of the hunters who talk like you can't say the same. I also now know I will never own one of your rifles or use your outfit. Please keep your crap out of this thread.

You nailed it there. I’m clueless.

I build my own rifles, shoot steel and paper out to the distances you advocate shooting game at, spend 40 days of our 42 day sheep season hunting or guiding sheep hunters. Successfully harvested 43 rams.....14 of my own in 19 years.

Yes I’m simply clueless on this subject. Please tell me more.

I called out irresponsible behavior and felt our must be guided laws in Alaska still hold value bottom line. I see this kind of nonsense distance shooting on the long range hunting forum of Rokslide and just shake my head. Though they state you can’t make comments on those distances. The Sheep Hunting Fourm does not have that and I’ll call it out.

 

[Murtfree]

I think accuracy and weight are sheep rifle attributes

What about terminal ballistics? I am asking this question because I am trying to make a decision on rifles for an upcoming sheep hunt; been lurking on this thread. I have never done a hunt this demanding so I am hoping for input from people who have and can give me first hand advice. I have been on lots of hunts for many species over the years and usually built a custom rifle for each so I don’t feel like I need another. I have narrowed it down to 3 based on what I felt I needed in ballistics and rifle weight; all are sub MOA. A Remington Mountain rifle in .280 Rem at 7.5 lbs that will shoot a Barnes LRX 145 grain at around 3125FPS with Leupold 2.5x8. A Rem 700 in .257 Weatherby at 8.25lbs shooting a 115 gr TSX at 3500 FPS with Leupold VX5 3.5x15. And lastly a Weatherby MarkV in 6.5-300 at 8.5 lbs shooting a 127 LRX at 3450 FPS with Leupold 4.5x14. I have many other rifles that would probably be suitable in various 7mm mags and 300 mags but left them out of the mix because they all tip the scales at 9+ lbs. I guess at the moment I am getting caught up on caliber and terminal energy/velocity but some of these rifles may be able to be trimmed down in weight by changing stocks, scopes and or mounts. I have no illusions about shooting beyond 400yds(and would like to keep it under 300yds), not because I couldn’t do it but because of the elements and conditions I will be shooting in; wind, poor shooting positions, etc. Any input good or bad is appreciated

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Playing devils advocate - Steve, are you guys willing to take traditional archers on sheep hunts? What is max range you’d allow them to shoot? Should guides be required for Alaska residents who laugh about burning a box of bullets to kill a sheep?

Personally, there ain’t a chance in hell I’d take a 1000 yard shot on a sheep hunt I had $25k into. Especially with the winds in sheep country. I have a hard time knowing what others are capable of though.

Sorry Wind just re-read your post and forgot to address your question on archery.

Traditional archery hunters will try to get as close as they possibly can. Most don’t want to have a bullet into their ram if they make a poor shot. And that is exactly what will happen if they wound one. The difference being those backup shots for wounded game would be....most likely under 200 yds as that wounded ram tried to leave to escape and I was able to get onto him. Most likely a lot less than 200 yds though.

Nevertheless a lot easier to kill a wounded ram at those distances than one at 1000yds plus.

 

[FURMAN]

I am not even sure where to start so...


I read back through the thread. The only even REMOTELY argumentative statements I made were
1) I did not want to turn the thread into a favorite bullet or cartridge discussion. There are plenty of them and we all have very personal preferences.
2) I do not think making the statement that a rifle must hit the target is really an attribute but more so a prerequisite. It did not need to be stated.

If one of my comments about those topics hurt your feelings maybe you need to toughen up. If you feel that was arrogant I can't help you. I personally don't feel they were out of line with a normal discussion on any thread in any forum.

I made absolutely no suggestion that I would take a 1000 yard shot. I made no comment advocating it. I simply said my rifle would be capable and I certainly am. I don't need someone else to tell me otherwise. As a matter of fact I spent ~24 hours staring at my sheep well within my comfort range with no wind because I knew they would get closer.

The only arrogance I see in the thread is one individual who believes his way of hunting is the only way.

I will not post in here again. If that individual needs the emotional boost by continuing to verbally bash others then I certainly hope he succeeds. It makes no difference to me. I can assure you I will sleep fine tonight.

To those who actually contributed I appreciate the discussion. Good luck this fall.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I am not even sure where to start so...


I read back through the thread. The only even REMOTELY argumentative statements I made were
1) I did not want to turn the thread into a favorite bullet or cartridge discussion. There are plenty of them and we all have very personal preferences.
2) I do not think making the statement that a rifle must hit the target is really an attribute but more so a prerequisite. It did not need to be stated.

If one of my comments about those topics hurt your feelings maybe you need to toughen up. If you feel that was arrogant I can't help you. I personally don't feel they were out of line with a normal discussion on any thread in any forum.

I made absolutely no suggestion that I would take a 1000 yard shot. I made no comment advocating it. I simply said my rifle would be capable and I certainly am. I don't need someone else to tell me otherwise. As a matter of fact I spent ~24 hours staring at my sheep well within my comfort range with no wind because I knew they would get closer.

The only arrogance I see in the thread is one individual who believes his way of hunting is the only way.

I will not post in here again. If that individual needs the emotional boost by continuing to verbally bash others then I certainly hope he succeeds. It makes no difference to me. I can assure you I will sleep fine tonight.

To those who actually contributed I appreciate the discussion. Good luck this fall.

lol meltdown.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I’ll stop you right there. My way of hunting is not the only way. I guide sheep hunters. I am very opened to lots of ways of harvesting sheep with archery or rifles.

There is a difference between hunting and shooting long range. And shooting long range at the distances you want your rifle capable of doing has no place in the sheep Mtns. And if you were not advocating potentially shooting at a “once in a lifetime” type sheep hunt at those distances if you needed to your post is very misleading.

There is a huge difference of being able to consistently making 1000yd hits and should you be making 1000yd shots.

Thanks for the professionals in the sheep hunting community (wheather that is the hardcore DIY’s or the guiding folks) for backing me up on this. Your comments are well received.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

What about terminal ballistics? I am asking this question because I am trying to make a decision on rifles for an upcoming sheep hunt; been lurking on this thread. I have never done a hunt this demanding so I am hoping for input from people who have and can give me first hand advice. I have been on lots of hunts for many species over the years and usually built a custom rifle for each so I don’t feel like I need another. I have narrowed it down to 3 based on what I felt I needed in ballistics and rifle weight; all are sub MOA. A Remington Mountain rifle in .280 Rem at 7.5 lbs that will shoot a Barnes LRX 145 grain at around 3125FPS with Leupold 2.5x8. A Rem 700 in .257 Weatherby at 8.25lbs shooting a 115 gr TSX at 3500 FPS with Leupold VX5 3.5x15. And lastly a Weatherby MarkV in 6.5-300 at 8.5 lbs shooting a 127 LRX at 3450 FPS with Leupold 4.5x14. I have many other rifles that would probably be suitable in various 7mm mags and 300 mags but left them out of the mix because they all tip the scales at 9+ lbs. I guess at the moment I am getting caught up on caliber and terminal energy/velocity but some of these rifles may be able to be trimmed down in weight by changing stocks, scopes and or mounts. I have no illusions about shooting beyond 400yds(and would like to keep it under 300yds), not because I couldn’t do it but because of the elements and conditions I will be shooting in; wind, poor shooting positions, etc. Any input good or bad is appreciated

Your Rem 700 in 280 would be the best choice in the three you mentioned. If it does not already have a McMillan or type of synthetic stock that would be a great addition. Your scope choice is ideal especially at the ranges you state will be your max. Well over 75 percent of my guided rams have been taken with that particular scope model in the 5 generations out there. Of my 14 personal rams, 13 were taken with that scope.

My last year ram was taken with that 145gr LRX bullet as well.

 

[Murtfree]

Your Rem 700 in 280 would be the best choice in the three you mentioned. If it does not already have a McMillan or type of synthetic stock that would be a great addition. Your scope choice is ideal especially at the ranges you state will be your max. Well over 75 percent of my guided rams have been taken with that particular scope model in the 5 generations out there. Of my 14 personal rams, 13 were taken with that scope.

My last year ram was taken with that 145gr LRX bullet as well.

Thanks for that input, it helps in making a confident decision on what is needed to get the job done. This particular .280 Rem I restocked about 25 years ago with I believe a Brown Precision(or Bansner) fiberglass stock; it was one of my first custom Whitetail Rifles. I happen to have 2 Rem LA McMillan Carbon stocks new in the box that I was going to weight compare to the existing stock to see if I may be able to shed another few ounces and get it closer to 7 lbs. I had totally discounted this rifle early on in this quest until I came up with Reloder 26 and the 145 LRX. The gunsmith that does my metal work had told me that most of his sheep hunters use the 2.5x8 and some even 2x7 to shed an extra ounce. I used to work in a custom rifle shop years ago and my job was inletting stocks and bedding barreled actions. Back then I used Acraglass, today Devcon. Thanks again!

 

[dogman11]

tell me your thoughts
300 wsm
lone peak ti action
AG composite stock
2.5-10 42 Nightforce
18-20 in proof light
trigger tech
spartan bipod

I saw enough grizzlies up close and know of one story much worse that I'm wanting to leave my 6.5 at home

Looking for any reccomendations you guys think I may need

 

[wind gypsy]

If you reload and AG composites inlets for medium length actions I’d get one over a short action.