Sheep herders in national forest

[blackpowderhunter]

Also, when we tried to talk to him he gave us the "no English" bs.

I always thought the herders were American family's who had tended herds for generations, this guy was clearly not from America. Can't we raise the same money without having foreigners bring their livestock to our national forests?

they have leased land, they have just as much of the same rights as you do.
"no english bs"? what's bs about them not speaking english. whats the matter about him not being from america? if you want to get paid pennies to live in the woods and chase sheep all summer im sure there's job openings available for you. people love to get all hot and bothered about people from other countries holding jobs here, fact is, most people don't want those jobs.
we run into them all the time where we hunt. find the sheep, avoid the sheep. i hiked a climber way down to the bottom of a drainage with good game trails only to set up opening morning and have 150 head of sheep driven right through, sucks, but happens.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

Are there state maps online that show tenure (lease) boundaries? I know in BC you can see forest and rec tenures...you can even see cut blocks and proposed/future cut blocks. I would think some states have this tech available.

Might be worth exploring to avoid surprises, or at least further define the best hunting zones.

and

sheep herder.....sheep+herder = shepherd

 

[LostArra]

Shepherd

 

[theleo91386]

Cheap labor for rich Republicans? I think you meant to say competent labor hired by rich Republicans. All the Peruvian herders I've ran into have their travel costs covered both ways (during our winter they're back in Peru tending sheep down there). Wait till Colorado starts feeling the full weight of healthy wolf population. You'll be loving that sheep spend time in the same drainages you hunt. The Pyrenees always make things interesting, respect that they're doing what they're wired for but also be prepared to deal with one if they take their job to far.

 

[LostArra]

The shepherd and his Great Pyrenees we encountered in Colorado were all very friendly. The sheep were a pia so we changed locations. The following year our camp (in San Juan Wilderness) was flattened by cattle and so the next year I changed states.

 

[LongWayAround]

Ehff those dogs and their sheep too.

I don't mind cattle or Peruvians...

 

[johnw]

Definitely wise to avoid the sheep/dogs. In my experience, when the sheep move in the elk move out.

 

[Poser]

Ive encountered sheep and dogs, both Great Pyrenees and Marmale Sheep dogs, quite a few times and never had any issue myself. I do hate the way they shit all over everything including water supplies, though. I heard rumors that numerous people, especially bikers and people with dogs, were having encounters with aggressive sheep dogs on a popular section of the COlorado Trail, but the herd had been relocated by the time I got around to riding that section.

The biggest concern in this area are the threat of domestic sheep to big horns. Particularly in the Weminuche. The family that has the permits for this area grazes his sheep in the high country in the summer and then somewhere in New Mexico in the winter. I can’t say I’m a fan of this practice as the alpine tundra is a valuable food supply for elk and deer and only available for a brief window.

 

[DWBMontana]

Just got back from my first Colorado elk hunt. Saw some, but couldn't get anywhere near archery distance.

Although I was aware there would be sheep in the area, I was surprised by the fact one of the herders was camped at the intersection of two of the major trails and would sit around and smile while his very aggressive dogs harassed us when we passed through the area to hunt about a mile and a half from his sheep. One night I thought we might have to dispatch a few dogs to defend ourselves. Are they allowed to block major trails? Also, when we tried to talk to him he gave us the "no English" bs.

I always thought the herders were American family's who had tended herds for generations, this guy was clearly not from America. Can't we raise the same money without having foreigners bring their livestock to our national forests?

Sorry for the long rant, but is there anything that can be done to move this guy? I don't think other hunters or hikers shouldn't be able to pass through and area because where this guy is camped. Thanks.

Sheep growers have Forest service leases dating back for generations, post like this show how clueless a lot of folks who live hundreds if not thousands of miles away are of the way of life here in the mountain west, livestock are a major part of life here, if you do not like it, stay home, that simple.

 

[ClearCreek]

A few years ago a vehicle from California stopped at a game check station in Kaycee, WY and told the G&F folks running the check station they did not have any game, but had found a lost dog.............

Yup, it was a Great Pyrenees that they had in the vehicle. The hunters were told by a Wyoming Game Warden to immediately return the dog to the place they picked it up.

ClearCreek

 

[TradAg02]

Does anyone have legitimate insight into what the grazing leases cost? I’ve heard rumors they are dirt cheap and leased to the same families for generations. Again these are only rumors, hence why I’m looking for confirmation.

I ask, because I have always wondered why some of the hunting organizations don’t just buy the leases each year in an effort to preserve native habitat and reduce competition with native wildlife.






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[Poser]

Does anyone have legitimate insight into what the grazing leases cost? I’ve heard rumors they are dirt cheap and leased to the same families for generations. Again these are only rumors, hence why I’m looking for confirmation.

I ask, because I have always wondered why some of the hunting organizations don’t just buy the leases each year in an effort to preserve native habitat and reduce competition with native wildlife.






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I’ve also heard that they are dirt cheap, however, many of them may operate like homesteads. Basically, there won’t be any new permits issued and if they lapse, they are gone forever.

 

[Deere83]

We had a 550 head permit here in Colorado. We had to buy the permit which was fairly expensive and they don’t come up for sale often. Once you have a grazing allotment the monthly fee was less than 1.50$ per aum. We ran cattle so I don’t know what the sheep cost.

 

[DenverCountryBoy]

Are there state maps online that show tenure (lease) boundaries? I know in BC you can see forest and rec tenures...you can even see cut blocks and proposed/future cut blocks. I would think some states have this tech available.

Might be worth exploring to avoid surprises, or at least further define the best hunting zones.

and

sheep herder.....sheep+herder = shepherd

Grazing allotments

Range: Allotment (Feature Layer)

Designates boundaries to establish extent of livestock distribution and management within the allotment.

enterprisecontent-usfs.opendata.arcgis.com

 

[Sekora]

Does anyone have legitimate insight into what the grazing leases cost? I’ve heard rumors they are dirt cheap and leased to the same families for generations. Again these are only rumors, hence why I’m looking for confirmation.

I ask, because I have always wondered why some of the hunting organizations don’t just buy the leases each year in an effort to preserve native habitat and reduce competition with native wildlife.






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My thought is that if grazing permits were not allowed, more land would be bought up by the ranchers which would equate to less open to the public. As long as they are paying a fee to graze their livestock, I don't see a problem with it other than the potential spread of disease.

 

[Okhotnik]

Does anyone have legitimate insight into what the grazing leases cost? I’ve heard rumors they are dirt cheap and leased to the same families for generations. Again these are only rumors, hence why I’m looking for confirmation.

I ask, because I have always wondered why some of the hunting organizations don’t just buy the leases each year in an effort to preserve native habitat and reduce competition with native wildlife.






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[/

My neighbors are ranchers and run cattle and sheep on leasing rights on public land

I find it interesting the number who live in urban areas harbor such animosity towards the ranching culture

My neighbors are out every day on their leases and are good stewards of wildlife . People that complain and live in cities still want their organic carbon neutral free range meat in their whole food stores but have no clue where it comes from.

When snow pushes animals down to their property in winter the elk and deer have a good safe low stress place to over winter

I guess we could seize their land, parcel it it up into 1 acres parcels and sell them to people relocating from cities so they can build their McMansions and ranchettes with big carbon footprints



You can always come out west and purchase a few thousand acres and donate to the wildlife

 

[jmez]

In order to get a forest permit you have to purchase it from the current owner. The FS doesn't just randomly sell them every year.

Most of the guys that have them live on a smaller ranch in the foothills that is only big enough to winter their stock. They use the leases to summer them. Most of the leases are sold with the ranches as a package. About the only time one will come up for public purchase is bankruptcy. Even when they retire or downsize and don't liquidate they will be sold to a neighbor.

Here is an example, 45,500 acres for sale in WY. Includes 1900 acres of state lease, 3400 acres of FS lease and 5700 acres of BLM lease.

Ranch for Sale

 

[sndmn11]

A 12 pack of Mountain Dew and the Peruvian would have walked you to the elk that find safe harbor around their flocks because those dogs run off predators, and the herders have free reign to kill any they see....

 

[TradAg02]

I didn’t mean any offense in my question. Just looking to gain an understanding of how the public land leases work.


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[MOSO 300]

Just got back from my first Colorado elk hunt. Saw some, but couldn't get anywhere near archery distance.

Although I was aware there would be sheep in the area, I was surprised by the fact one of the herders was camped at the intersection of two of the major trails and would sit around and smile while his very aggressive dogs harassed us when we passed through the area to hunt about a mile and a half from his sheep. One night I thought we might have to dispatch a few dogs to defend ourselves. Are they allowed to block major trails? Also, when we tried to talk to him he gave us the "no English" bs.

I always thought the herders were American family's who had tended herds for generations, this guy was clearly not from America. Can't we raise the same money without having foreigners bring their livestock to our national forests?

Sorry for the long rant, but is there anything that can be done to move this guy? I don't think other hunters or hikers shouldn't be able to pass through and area because where this guy is camped. Thanks.

Whoa whoa whoa.... those sheep are the property of the people’s republic of that state, and whereas such by the bylaws set forth that Non-American identifies himself as a Resident of said state, and being such is granted 90% of all trail space. Be happy with you 10% trail space allocation at 13 times the cost as it was scribed in stone by Royal decree by Zeus himself ....
and I digress


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