SG Grumman vs kifaru LPP vs Rab electron pro (or neutrino pro)?

[Kspence49]

Revamping my hunting wardrobe and looking to wear a puffy jacket to throw on when I stop hiking and sit down. Priorities are warmth first and pack ability second. Don’t plan on using it while marching around so durability isn’t a huge issue. Each of the jackets are around the same price range, but I can be patient if one brand or another runs sales. What is your experience with these 3 jackets? I live and hunt in Wyoming so cold, windy, and dry are the most common conditions

 

[bozeman]

I sold the LPP due to it being TOO warm for me. Its a solid piece and extremely warm. I havent tried the other two, but will vouch for the quality and warmth of the LPP.

 

[feanor]

Try out montbell Japan for close to half off retail with the exchange rate. I got an alpine down parka for 158.00 a couple months ago. Great specs for a glassing jacket.

 

[Kspence49]

Try out montbell Japan for close to half off retail with the exchange rate. I got an alpine down parka for 158.00 a couple months ago. Great specs for a glassing jacket.

Awesome thanks for this info I heard good things about montbell but when I looked them yo they were like 500 bucks so I wrote them off haha

 

[Kspence49]

Try out montbell Japan for close to half off retail with the exchange rate. I got an alpine down parka for 158.00 a couple months ago. Great specs for a glassing jacket.

Can you give me a rundown of the montbell options? The only one I see them talk about is the plasma but that is only made in the worst possible colors for hunting haha

 

[feanor]

Pm sent

 

[Schism]

I have a Grumman jacket and a Kifaru LPP. They each fill a different niche which is why I have kept them both. I think they are both pretty warm. If I wasn't worried about weight or packability, I would choose the Kifaru. It is heavier and bulkier than the Grumman but more durable. The Grumman packs down small and is light while still being warm. The Grumman is easier to layer over since it is a thinner, down jacket.

I also have an Eddie Bauer puffy jacket and for the money, that jacket has outperformed my expectations. I purchased it after seeing a thread (probably on here) about signing up for emails from EB and getting a 50% (I think) off coupon. I purchased the jacket on sale with that coupon and it was silly cheap.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I love my LPP, it’s a staple in my gear.

 

[millsms]

I have all 3. Grumman is 5.3 of 850 fill down with a clo value of 2.53 for 850 down so total of 5.3x2.53= 13.4 total clo. 15 denier pertex quantum xl weighs 15 oz. Rab electron pro is 6.7 oz 800 down fill and 800 down fill has clo value of 1.68 so total clo of 11.2. 20 denier Pertex quantum size L at 19 oz so SG would be warmer. LpP has single layer 3.6 oz of apex Climashield which has a clo value of .82 so total is 2.95 and size L weighs 23 oz. Not sure if the rhino skin material denier but with the 500 d cordura in spots that would help hold in heat. So if all thematerials were equal and fits the same the SG would be the warmest follow by the Rab electron then the LPP I will say most of my back country Hunts I take the SG in but if I’m in an area with potentially a lot of rain consistently I will take the LPP it is warm for what it is I will give it that but it’s definitely not warmer than the SG even with no quilt lines. Hope that helps

 

[t_carlson]

I have the Grumman and the Rab Neutrino Pro.

The Neutrino Pro is significantly warmer than the Grumman. They compliment each other well.

 

[Whaledriver]

I have a first gen Rab Nuetrino. Never been cold in it. Hunted a bunch of 3rd rifle in CO. Only quirk is the zipper being on the wrong side. The limeys like things on the left apparently....

 

[Bearsears]

I have all 3. Grumman is 5.3 of 850 fill down with a clo value of 2.53 for 850 down so total of 5.3x2.53= 13.4 total clo. 15 denier pertex quantum xl weighs 15 oz. Rab electron pro is 6.7 oz 800 down fill and 800 down fill has clo value of 1.68 so total clo of 11.2. 20 denier Pertex quantum size L at 19 oz so SG would be warmer. LpP has single layer 3.6 oz of apex Climashield which has a clo value of .82 so total is 2.95 and size L weighs 23 oz. Not sure if the rhino skin material denier but with the 500 d cordura in spots that would help hold in heat. So if all thematerials were equal and fits the same the SG would be the warmest follow by the Rab electron then the LPP I will say most of my back country Hunts I take the SG in but if I’m in an area with potentially a lot of rain consistently I will take the LPP it is warm for what it is I will give it that but it’s definitely not warmer than the SG even with no quilt lines. Hope that helps

So I did some research on this because it was bothering me why a lot of people that own both the Rab Electron Pro and the Stone Glacier Grumman say that the Rab is warmer and I had found a Rab Electron for a great price. It wouldn't make sense according to this great post by @millsms. It also bothered me that a lot of these high end European manufactures like Rab and Mountain Equipment would only use 800 fill down when most American manufactures are using 850.

Down the rabbit hole I went. I found out that there are two different testing methods for down fill rating there is the Lorch (European) method and the US method. I found this explanation

"Fill Power is a measure of how well the down will expand after being compressed. This correlates to warmth for weight and packability. It is NOT a measure of how much down is in a product. There are 2 fill power tests. They are Lorch (EU) and US. The US test returns a higher score for the same down sample. For US fill powers 800 and above then subtract 50 to get the Lorch result. For US Fill Powers below 800, subtract 25 to get the Lorch result. For fill powers below 600 no adjustment is needed.Warning - much detail has been glossed over in this summary"

However, at the end of the linked article it said that Rab had changed to the US method. So now I was really confused. I decided to email Rab about it. Here is that correspondence:

Mar 21, 2024, 18:11 GMT To Whom it May Concern, I am wondering what test rating is used to rate your down fill. Is it the Lorch (EU) testing, or is is the US testing method. Im trying to figure out how I should compare your down products in 800fill with US products made with 850 fill. P.S. I just bought an Electron Pro and I absolutely love it. Thanks for the fine products! Thanks, Keely (Rab US) Mar 25, 2024, 15:05 GMT Thanks so much for reaching out. Sorry for the delay in hearing back from us as I was waiting on a response from our product development team. We use the Lorch (EU) testing method. The main difference between the two test methods is in the units of measurements used during testing. Cubic inches (US) vs Cubic centimetres (EU). The US test measures the volume of space (in cubic inches) that a fixed weight of down occupies when fully lofted. The Lorch test (used in Europe) measures the volume of space (in cubic centimetres) occupied by a fixed weight of down when compressed under a specified pressure. The US testing method provides a higher reading due to it using a larger unit of measurement. Glad to hear you're enjoying your Electron. Happy trails, Keely

 

[Bearsears]

So with that knowledge now we can understand why the field reports are saying that the Rab Electron is warmer. The Electron is 850 fill also and has more of it than the Grumman, 6.7oz to 5.3oz respectively. So the CLO rating of the Electron Pro should be amended to 2.53 x 6.7oz= 16.9 total CLO.

Im sure nobody cares much about this and I'm nerding out way too much. But who knows maybe someone will find this mildly interesting.

 

[Grady.J]

So with that knowledge now we can understand why the field reports are saying that the Rab Electron is warmer. The Electron is 850 fill also and has more of it than the Grumman, 6.7oz to 5.3oz respectively. So the CLO rating of the Electron Pro should be amended to 2.53 x 6.7oz= 16.9 total CLO.

Im sure nobody cares much about this and I'm nerding out way too much. But who knows maybe someone will find this mildly interesting.

I appreciate that. I love my neutrino pro, but this makes me love it just a little bit more.

 

[schmalzy]

I appreciate that. I love my neutrino pro, but this makes me love it just a little bit more.

Neutrino pro on my list for next puffy. I have a TNF summit that is comparable to Grumman but want to go to next level.


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[inkedspot]

I really liked my Grumman but after reading this about the Neutrino Pro I am going to have to look into one.

 

[Bearsears]

Yeah the Neutrino and the Electron are both awesome jackets and if you find the right sale they can be had for great prices. The difference between the two is slightly different baffle design and the Electron has 190grams/ 6.7oz of down whereas the Neutrino has 212gram/ 7.5oz of down. Same fabrics are used for the inner and outer.

I haven't seen much talked about on the Rab Infinity either. If you were a guy that missed out on the Sitka Kelvin Down Windstopper that is so beloved on Rokslide, then the Infinity is your jacket. Its most likely even warmer than the Kelvin down WS since it had 250grams of 750fill. The Infinity has the same 850fill down as the other Rab offerings in 250grams/8.8oz and also has the Goretex Windstopper that made the Kelvin down WS such an awesome piece. Ill never sell my Kelvin Down WS lol.

 

[Grady.J]

Neutrino pro on my list for next puffy. I have a TNF summit that is comparable to Grumman but want to go to next level.


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I really liked my Grumman but after reading this about the Neutrino Pro I am going to have to look into one.

The Neutrino is definitely a step up in warmth from the Grumman, and a tougher fabric, I'd say probably too warm for early season depending where you hunt. Great late season/winter piece though.

 

[schmalzy]

The Neutrino is definitely a step up in warmth from the Grumman, and a tougher fabric, I'd say probably too warm for early season depending where you hunt. Great late season/winter piece though.

Yes, have early season adequately covered. Looking for a 2nd rifle with 8” of snow and single digit temps jacket.


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