Setting Gun up to Shoot 6-700 yards

[ruchtir]

I am going to be heading on an aoudad hunt in a few years, and possibly a mountain goat hunt after that. I am told by the outfitter the average shot on a aoudad is 400 yards, depending on the ranch we were hunting. This was kind of an eye opener to me. I am used to shooting whitetails at 75-200 yards. I was expecting 400 to be on the high end of things. So, I need your guys help. I have a rem 700 sps stainless in 300 RUM. It has never had an optic mounted on it. I'm looking for some insight on setting it up to shoot those distances.

1.) Any recommendation on optics? I would like to stay with Vortex as their facility is 10 minutes from my house and love their customer service. I would prefer not to get anything super fancy. I was looking at their HST and PST models.
2.) Should I go ahead and invest in a wheeler mounting kit or maybe just go have it mounted professionally?
3.) I am going to have a muzzle brake added. Should I have them do any other kind of work such as free float the barrel, bed the stock, change trigger, etc.
4.) How exactly do you guys work up ballistic tables? Do I need to get a chrono or other equipment to get the data I need?
5.) I do not reload and therefore will be shooting factory ammo. Any recommendations on factory loads?
6.) Do you consider a barrel break in necessary? Ive never done one but again have never shot at an animal over 200 yards.

Thank you guys for any answers to these questions. I understand there are alot.

 

[codym]

1) Vortex viper pst gen II 4-16x50 mil or moa, I use mils but whatever is fine
2) I don't have experience with this kit but its always good to have tools to double check tightness especially on a hard recoiling caliber like the RUM
3)I would bed the stock, I would also recommend the Trigger Tech trigger but you can do that yourself if you have a few tools and a little bit of mechanical skill. It's really easy.
4) Your gonna need a chrono for sure. You need to shoot your loads and verify FPS then use a ballistic app and plug in all the data, elevation, temp, bullet bc etc. It will give you a drop chart. From there go out and shoot to verify all those drops. Also find out the difference in elevation from where you hunt and practice, it may make a difference.
5) No recommendation on a factory load, I reload so I'm not sure what's out there for the RUM
6) I don't have evidence that this does or doesn't make a difference but I do it with all new barrels.

Biggest thing is verifying real-world drops and shooting a bunch. Problem with factory ammo is it's not always consistent lot to lot or box to box. In my opinion long range shooting is consistency and controlling as many variables as closely as possible, makes it a bit tough with factory ammo.

 

[bsnedeker]

1) Vortex has some great optics, just make sure you get enough magnification to see clearly at the distances you are talking about and you'll be good.
2)Have it mounted professionally...doesn't sound like you are going to make long distance shooting a hobby anytime soon.
3)In my experience the gun you have is more than capable out to 700 yards. I would be less worried about the gun than my ability to shoot those distances.
4)I'm not a super long distance guy so this may not be the best advice, but I figure out ballistics by shooting at distance and seeing what my drop is. I'm 2" high at 100, 1" high at 200, 3" low at 300, etc. I just range what I'm shooting and hold over (no turrets or balistic reticals for me, I'm not smart enough for that stuff!)
5)TONS of good options in factory ammo. Pick something with a good BC and you should be good to go.
6) Absolutely! It's the most important step in setting up a rifle for long range accuracy in my opinion.

 

[hodgeman]

1.) Any recommendation on optics? I would like to stay with Vortex as their facility is 10 minutes from my house and love their customer service. I would prefer not to get anything super fancy. I was looking at their HST and PST models.
- Get something you can dial elevation and has a working reticle for wind holds.

2.) Should I go ahead and invest in a wheeler mounting kit or maybe just go have it mounted professionally?
- You don't need a wheeler kit, but it sure is nice to have. Most people who "professionally" mount scopes don't know any more than you do. I'm a fan of DIY for that task.

3.) I am going to have a muzzle brake added. Should I have them do any other kind of work such as free float the barrel, bed the stock, change trigger, etc.
- I wouldn't do a thing to the rifle until you figure out if it shoots. A lot of Remington 700s shoot great right out of the box.

4.) How exactly do you guys work up ballistic tables? Do I need to get a chrono or other equipment to get the data I need?
- You will need to at least chrono your load in your gun. You can often borrow one as you only need to do this once per load. You can obtain the data by shooting to distance and making corrections to your data without a chrono. You will need a decent rangefinder. I was recently introduced to Strelok Pro- a ballistic computer for an iPhone. Very handy.

5.) I do not reload and therefore will be shooting factory ammo. Any recommendations on factory loads?
-Whatever shoots the best in your rifle. 300RUM has enough factory choices that something appropriate for an aoudad should be out there. My buddy with a RUM shoots the 150gr Scirocco for everything and it's worked great.

6.) Do you consider a barrel break in necessary? Ive never done one but again have never shot at an animal over 200 yards.
- I consider barrel break in a waste of mental energy and time. Shoot the rifle appropriately, don't let it get hot with long strings of fire, and clean it appropriately. Last weekend, several folks and myself shot a dozen rifles to 850 yards and rang steel all weekend long. I never heard the word "barrel break in" from anyone. While some of those folks might have some break in regimen- several I know do not....it made no difference on who hit what.

 

[huntsman22]

1) Vortex has some great optics,

Yeah. Starting with the Razor.......

 

[Gunnersdad49]

1.) Any recommendation on optics? I would like to stay with Vortex as their facility is 10 minutes from my house and love their customer service.
I would prefer not to get anything super fancy. I was looking at their HST and PST models.
The Viper PST isn't a bad choice. I see a lot of the Razor HDs at PRS matches. As recommended above, get a scope you can dial, without covered turrets. Their CRS turrets, when set correctly, can save you a bunch of trouble.

2.) Should I go ahead and invest in a wheeler mounting kit or maybe just go have it mounted professionally? The Wheeler Fat Wrench is a good tool to have. That and some blue lock tite, and you should be good to go.

3.) I am going to have a muzzle brake added. Should I have them do any other kind of work such as free float the barrel, bed the stock, change trigger, etc. I would leave it as is and see how it shoots. If you can slip a dollar bill between the barrel and stock all the way back to the chamber, your barrel is already free floated. If it touches or binds, you may have a smith touch it up, or you can do it if you are handy with a piece of sandpaper.

4.) How exactly do you guys work up ballistic tables? Do I need to get a chrono or other equipment to get the data I need?
The best way is with a chrono. You can fake it and get close, but rent or borrow a chrono, and then get the app for your phone "Applied Ballistics" or "Shooter". My favorite is the Applied Ballistics. Take the time to put in the most accurate information you can, even if it seems trivial, and it will help you with good data well beyond the limits of what you are talking about here.

5.) I do not reload and therefore will be shooting factory ammo. Any recommendations on factory loads? Get something with a high BC, a hunting style of bullet, that shoots well in your rifle. If you are able to keep groups with it at an inch or less at a hundred yards, that is a good start. Federal Premium and Nosler have done well for me in different calibers.

6.) Do you consider a barrel break in necessary? Nope. It is important to note clean bore impacts vs fouled bore. I haven't cleaned my 1000 yard gun in over 200 rounds. If you get all set up, and things are going well, don't clean the bore prior to your hunt.

Please see my answers above

 

[thinhorn_AK]

You don’t need a special kit to property mount a scope, get a torque wrench and make sure you properly degrease everything, you’ll be fine.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

For hunting, I’d get the vortex razor HD LH.

 

[Wapiti1]

Razor HD LH 3-15 with BDC reticle. Their other scopes are nice, but stupid heavy. For 600 yards, you don't need anything special.

No need for special tools. You need a level, and a plumb bob, or sinker tied on a string. Level the action of the rifle, line up the reticle with the string. Snug it down to 15-20 inch pounds on the rings. The best gunsmiths I have ever met do it this way, cause it works.

I would get a new stock from Grayboe, B&C or Stockys composite, bed it, and install a Shilen, TriggerTech or Timney Calvin Elite trigger. The SPS stocks just bug me because they are the cheapest thing Remington could find.

You don't NEED a chronograph if you have a place to shoot out to 500 yards. You sight in dead on at 100, then shoot at 200, 300, 400, 500 and record the drop at each yardage. From that you can figure your velocity, B.C., and oh yeah, you know your drops. If you don't have access to that range, you should get the chrono. $100 for a Shootingchrony will get you what you something functional.

Hornady Precision Hunter 220gr ELD-X. Hornady did it right with this load. If you are shooting less than a 200gr bullet from a 300 RUM you are wasting that cartridges potential. At least in my opinion.

Barrel break-in is mis-understood. Don't worry about it. Don't heat up your barrel and you will be fine with just shooting and cleaning after your session at the range. A good rule of thumb is to always be able to hold your hand on the barrel. If it is too hot to do that, slow down your rate of fire.

Jeremy

 

[Fjelljeger]

Last weekend, several folks and myself shot a dozen rifles to 850 yards and rang steel all weekend long. I never heard the word "barrel break in" from anyone. While some of those folks might have some break in regimen- several I know do not....it made no difference on who hit what.[/QUOTE]

Nothing like shooting steal in the rain and hail out to 850.....DING!!

 

[ckleeves]

This is JMO, so nobody jump on me to hard.
I think shooting at LIVE animals at 700 yards takes a lot more time and investment then a lot of guys are willing to take. There are far to many guys these days who mount a scope with turrets on it, head to the range, collect a small bit of data, hit the 800 yard gong thats 18” tall on their 3rd shot at it off the bench and declare themselves a legit long range marksman that’s capable of shooting a living animal at that distance.

Long range shooting is an odd thing in the fact that the more you do it the less you realize how much you know. Inside 500 it’s pretty easy to get the skills (and equipment) to be confident on game. Once you get past 700 things had better be pretty tuned in. I’m talking tight ES on your velocity, good form, reading and inputting environmental conditions, scopes tracking very accurately etc.

Not saying this is the case with most people by any means but I think it’s easy to outshoot your abilities on live game after a guy has rang some steel at long distances and is lured into the false sense that it’s easier then it really is.

 

[BrushyHillGuide]

This is JMO, so nobody jump on me to hard.
I think shooting at LIVE animals at 700 yards takes a lot more time and investment then a lot of guys are willing to take. There are far to many guys these days who mount a scope with turrets on it, head to the range, collect a small bit of data, hit the 800 yard gong thats 18” tall on their 3rd shot at it off the bench and declare themselves a legit long range marksman that’s capable of shooting a living animal at that distance.

Long range shooting is an odd thing in the fact that the more you do it the less you realize how much you know. Inside 500 it’s pretty easy to get the skills (and equipment) to be confident on game. Once you get past 700 things had better be pretty tuned in. I’m talking tight ES on your velocity, good form, reading and inputting environmental conditions, scopes tracking very accurately etc.

Not saying this is the case with most people by any means but I think it’s easy to outshoot your abilities on live game after a guy has rang some steel at long distances and is lured into the false sense that it’s easier then it really is.

This is sound advice. Ringing steel is not anything like shooting an animal, particularly out at 600yds and beyond. Steel doesn’t move as you pull the trigger. An 18” plate rings whether you hit the center or the corner; but an animal only goes down if you get it in the kill zone. There’s no pressure shooting steel but there sure is after a 3 hour hike and a 10 minute scramble up a slope to get into position.

There’s some solid advice already posted that answers your original posts. It can sure be done with that rifle with a good scope, a trigger upgrade and a GOOD bedding job - IF you can find a good load that your rifle likes. If I were you and don’t reload, I’d probably be looking at some custom or semi-custom ammo from a company like Copper Creek Ammo. That is, unless you happen on a factory load that you can get to shoot well sub moa. Your biggest problem, to be brutally honest, is going to be your lack of requisite skills and experience. If you put your mind to it and embark on a dedicated quest to become a skilled LR shooter, you should be able to get there in a year or two. The rifle and ammo are the easy parts. Learning how to shoot well at distance and how to properly use the necessary equipment is the hard part. I’m not trying to dissuade you. Not AT ALL. Just pointing out that investing in some equipment and a gunsmith is not going to be enough. You’re going to need some significant trigger time at 700 and 800 yards where you can shoot all sorts of positions in varied conditions. Given the questions in the OP, your (the OP) lack of experience is obvious so you’re biting off a BIG challenge. Like a middle aged city-dwelling office worker deciding he’s going to do a solo pack-in archery elk hunt. It’s a huge challenge that can be immensely gratifying but will require an enormous amount of dedication and effort.

I’m a little surprised that your outfitter is saying 400yds is an average shot. I have a good friend who guides aoudad in West Texas and their average shot is more like 275yds and rarely encourage hunters to shoot past 500. just saying that most outfitters don’t like hunters taking really long shots because there’s too much room for error and if it isn’t a clean miss, there isn’t a do-over; and nobody wants to track a lightly wounded aoudad through the mountains trying to get another shot.

Besides the rifle stuff you’re going to need a GOOD rangefinder, weather meter and a ballistic calculator. I’d recommend a Sig Kilo 2200, WeatherFlow wind meter and a phone-based calculator like StrelokPro, Shooter or BallisticArc, if you’re on a budget. If you can afford more, I’d get a Sig Kilo 2400. The 2400 has the calculator built in and comes with a WeatherFlow meter. I’d get on Len Backups’ Long Range Hunting and on Snipers Hide and start learning about precision shooting. If you can find a class or two to attend, where you can get some personal hands-on instruction from a good shooter, you’ll seriously lessen the grade on that learning curve.

I do t mean to sound like a Debbie Downer here but it seems like so many people these days think the equipment makes long range shooting easy. It isn’t. Especially when shooting at an animal. I see it from clients all the time. The equipment doesn’t make the shooter - the shooter makes the equipment work. Good luck, it’s a really fun adventure! Lots of work but extremely rewarding! For me it is, anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ssssnake529]

A few years should give you plenty of time to become proficient with a rifle at long range, provided that you are willing to put in the time and effort.

Here is a book you should read. It is focused on long range hunting.

The Practical Guide To Long Range Shooting (Paperback + Ebook)

Lots of good practical advice in this book.

I prefer first focal plane scopes for hunting. First focal plane allows you to use the reticle to adjust for wind regardless of the scope magnification. The wind holdovers are the same, whether you are at 3x or 10x or 20x zoom. I'm pretty sure that Vortex offers some scopes in FFP.

I would not make any modifications to the rifle until you see how it shoots. If it shoots 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards out of the box, there is no need to do anything to it. If you can't get consistent groups of less than an inch, then find a good gunsmith and see what his recommendations are for getting it to shoot.

Buy ammunition from several manufacturers in a number of bullet weights. Different guns like different ammo. Try shooting different ammunition. You will likely find significant differences in accuracy when using different ammo.

Regarding barrel break in: Your point of impact will shift a bit from the time the gun is new to the time you've fired a couple of boxes of ammunition through it. Overall accuracy may change a bit as well. Keep this in mind when you are judging the rifle's capabilities and also when judging which types of ammunition it likes best.

As someone else mentioned, an accurate rangefinder is a must when hunting at longer ranges. Errors in rangefinding will cause you to miss your target, and the effect of an error becomes much greater at longer ranges. I have a Sig Kilo 2400 rangefinder, which I like a lot. It has built in ballistics, which will help you in calculating your turret adjustments in the field. A ballistics program (such as Strelok Pro) will create drop charts for you. However, you will need to go into the field and confirm real world results and then adjust your drop charts accordingly.

You are going to need to do a lot of shooting to become competent at distance. The hardest part is judging wind, and that only comes with experience. Shoot in different locations under different conditions. Take notes. Go on hikes with a Kestrel wind meter. Practice estimating wind speed and confirming it with your Kestrel. Again, nothing will take the place of lots of practice. (Hopefully you have a place where you can shoot out to 600 yards.)

Long range hunting is expensive, and very time intensive. If you aren't willing to spend the time and money to do it right, then don't do it. It's not ethical to take a shot on an animal if you aren't competent at that distance.

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

At least you’ve got time on your side, it’s not a quick undertaking.

How are you with recoil? Being that it seems you haven’t shot that rifle, if you’re going to be fighting flinching you need to start off with something MUCH lighter or you won’t be successful.

I have the Weaver kit and like it, there is a big difference using it compared to following the direction card that comes with most rings. I’d consider it mandatory for any rifle where I planned to dial elevation.

The wind is going to be the biggest problem once you get everything else taken care of. The only way to handle that is practice and using high BC bullets to cheat the affects. At 600 yards across a canyon the wind could be blowing 5 mph where you are, and 30 mph halfway to your target.

Putting in the time will build your confidence quickly though. I was able to make a difficult shot on the buck I killed last year in a very limited window because I’d been hitting the range regularly and watched my rifle run bullet after bullet though the same hole. It wasn’t a very long shot, but I wouldn’t have taken it in years past. The rifle I used I also bought to hunt aoudad as I’ve heard the same as you have that 400 yard shots are the norm, as well as an illuminated dot reticle being very helpful when they’re in the shadows of a canyon or rock face.

 

[MallardSX2]

If an outfitter told me the average shot was around 400 yards I would choose a different outfitter.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I'm sorta surprised you have a 300rum for <200yd whitetail hunting. Yes I would get a brake on it because to do what you are wanting to do you need trigger time and you need to be comfortable shooting the gun through a session of shooting w/o being sore or jumpy. As noted getting past 500 things start getting trickier, wind affecting things, slight error in your ballistic curve starting to show itself, etc. The great thing about practicing long though is your accuracy and confidence closer in increase so its not wasted time even if you aren't shooting long at critters.

First things first though (before a brake) after you get an optic on it and site it in at 100 or 200, get yourself a large piece of cardboard and see how it patterns at 400+. Some factory gun/ammo combos shoot like a shotgun so you need to get a working combo before investing in permanent things to a specific barreled action like a muzzle brake (optics, stocks, etc. you can move to a new gun if needed).

 

[LaHunter]

If it were me, I would sell the 300 RUM and buy a good 300 Win mag, if a 300 is what you want. The 300 WM will be capable of shooting / killing way farther than your abilities, it has less recoil than a 300 RUM, ammo is WAY more available and less expensive, barrel life is WAY better, reloading components are much more readily available, etc, etc. Just something to think about.

 

[huntsman22]

same could be said about the 243.....

 

[ruchtir]

Thank you guys for the responses and suggestions. I consider myself to be an ethical hunter and would never take shots that I would consider out of my comfortable range or conditions. I have time to prepare myself. If the time for hunt comes and Im not confident past 450-500, then thats what my max range will be.

 

[ruchtir]

If an outfitter told me the average shot was around 400 yards I would choose a different outfitter.

I was surprised as well. However, they are one of the most recommended outfitters that I have seen. He described the ranch we talked about as Canyon country.