Seating depth - does it even matter?

[Packmansion]

"I’ve yet to see any respected expert who is familiar with statistics claim that a 3-shot group is adequate to quantify a rifle’s precision. In fact, after rigorous statistical analysis, Ballistipedia.com says, “If you’re shooting 3-shot groups … then you are wasting bullets.” While many keyboard snipers love to cite how tiny their 3-shot groups are, they often fail to mention that their groups impacted at different spots on the target. The exact center of each bughole shifts around a bit relative to the point of aim. Again, let’s refer to MacDonald’s illustration below and we can see that the 5-shot groups on the left are each smaller than the composite group in the overlay, but we can also notice that the center of each of the 5-shot groups’ shifts around slightly."

Great article on testing:

Precision & Group Size – Statistics for Shooters Part 3

This article is going to dive into the most effective ways to quantify the precision of a rifle and...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Castle Rock]

I'm not watching a 1 hour interpretive dance about reloading. Id recommend you watch the Hornady video on this. It’s based on a study with a substantial body of data from their engineers.

Hornady is absolutely correct that seating depth isn’t as critical with their bullets because their quality control is so shitty that it doesn’t matter.
On the other hand, it will be a revelation when you use some Berger bullets in a custom barrel, their consistency will show you exactly what’s going on

 

[Packmansion]

Hornady is absolutely correct that seating depth isn’t as critical with their bullets because their quality control is so shitty that it doesn’t matter.
On the other hand, it will be a revelation when you use some Berger bullets in a custom barrel, their consistency will show you exactly what’s going on

Are we still talking 3 shot groups?

 

[Wrench]

Hornady is absolutely correct that seating depth isn’t as critical with their bullets because their quality control is so shitty that it doesn’t matter.
On the other hand, it will be a revelation when you use some Berger bullets in a custom barrel, their consistency will show you exactly what’s going on

Let's not forget hornady is asking you to use a lot of their product to prove you're super average.

 

[Packmansion]

Let's not forget hornady is asking you to use a lot of their product to prove you're super average.

Thats not what they are saying.

 

[Castle Rock]

Are we still talking 3 shot groups?

If you have read anything I have posted on here you would understand that that is not the way I roll

 

[Castle Rock]

Let's not forget hornady is asking you to use a lot of their product to prove you're super average.

Let's not forget hornady is asking you to use a lot of their product to prove THEY are super average.

 

[Packmansion]

If you have read anything I have posted on here you would understand that that is not the way I roll

So then you agree with Hornady!

 

[Packmansion]

This was a great watch for sure. Some interesting numbers! Take away from it what you wish

My takeaways:

1. This is a 20lb+ straight shank barreled F class rifle with a smaller cartridge, shot by a shooter with a wall of medals. If I think my 10lb magnum rifle will shoot the same, I'm wrong. And if I think I will see the minute differences that he is seeing, I'm wrong as well probably.

2. Average 5 shot groups of .41-.46". The "best" 5 shot group seating depth shot from a .25" group to a .63" group.

3. Once groups were taken to a sample of 33 shots, the WORST small sample size depth, actually became the best, most stable load.

4. From "worst" to "best", the variation is about 10%. I put those in quotations because you can switch sample sizes around and also vary which one is the worst or the best.

5. After 100 rounds of seating depth testing, he almost came to an inconclusive result.



Interesting test for sure. Also why I quit messing with seating depth so much. It'd take me 500 freaking rounds to legitimately prove a 10% change in group size with a magnum rifle. And taking a group from a .7 to a .6 isn't going to kill me any extra animals until you get a LONG ways out.

 

[Castle Rock]

So then you agree with Hornady!

You just don’t get it, I agreed with them in the previous post you quoted

 

[Packmansion]

You just don’t get it, I agreed with them in the previous post you quoted

So you just wanted to share that hornady bullets have poor quality control. Got it.

 

[JGRaider]

So you just wanted to share that hornady bullets have poor quality control. Got it.

And their owner is a full blown covtard. Screw Hornady.

 

[Packmansion]

And their owner is a full blown covtard. Screw Hornady.

What is a covtard?

 

[greyghostnw]

Pretty simple process. The target tells the story. Shoot a graph. Level velocity then tune depth. On a graph your impact will shrink and grow with depth. Usually have a .006 window. Its not rocket science. Your picking a frequency with a area in a frequency your able to adjust repeatedly from…pretty straightforward. Everything has energy and a frequency. Your choice within, the paper shows your shape, 3 shot groups are all thats needed to show shape. A clover is ideal and shows your on the right track with everything done well for your components. Level velocity, not vertical, not horizontal, not double grouping, just a nice one hole or small clover. All of your brass prep needs to be done in a redundant manner to achieve this to be relevant. Seating depth allows a 3/8” group be 1/8” or smaller or bigger. Can you drive your rifle that well to have meaningful data? Only your targets will tell you. A lot of ways to skin this cat…. Regardless of what your practice or opinion is we can achieve results that are found in different ways. The key is to repeat over the life of barrel. That mileage may vary…Good luck.

 

[BBob]

What is a covtard?

The president of Hornady initially caved to Biden admin and was requiring the Covid vax for continued employment. Under pressure he reversed course and backtracked on the mandate.

 

[Packmansion]

Pretty simple process. The target tells the story. Shoot a graph. Level velocity then tune depth. On a graph your impact will shrink and grow with depth. Usually have a .006 window. Its not rocket science. Your picking a frequency with a area in a frequency your able to adjust repeatedly from…pretty straightforward. Everything has energy and a frequency. Your choice within, the paper shows your shape, 3 shot groups are all thats needed to show shape. A clover is ideal and shows your on the right track with everything done well for your components. Level velocity, not vertical, not horizontal, not double grouping, just a nice one hole or small clover. All of your brass prep needs to be done in a redundant manner to achieve this to be relevant. Seating depth allows a 3/8” group be 1/8” or smaller or bigger. Can you drive your rifle that well to have meaningful data? Only your targets will tell you. A lot of ways to skin this cat…. Regardless of what your practice or opinion is we can achieve results that are found in different ways. The key is to repeat over the life of barrel. That mileage may vary…Good luck.

I dont take advice from new age healers. What frequency are you referring to? Is the burning of sage involved? 3 shot group is enough?

 

[huntnful]

I dont take advice from new age healers. What frequency are you referring to? Is the burning of sage involved? 3 shot group is enough?

You’re condescending as hell for someone that has shown literally nothing personally produced or achieved besides listening to a couple of podcasts and watching a couple of YouTube videos.

While you’re online you should find all the precision records set by hornady bullets…. You know, since they know everything about what affects precision. The company that holds nearly every record (besides people that make their own bullets) says to test seating depths. The company that hold 0 records, say it doesn’t matter. Weird.

 

[Wrench]

I suggest reading Tony Boyer's book.... and Harold Vaughn's as well. I also suggest paying consideration to product pushers telling you to use a lot of their products.

Find some interviews with Speedy Gonzales, Jim Borden, Wayne Campbell.....any of the guys that prove accuracy through results. These guys don't sell products or have brand loyalty issues.

Much of the internet advice you'll find is from people selling products or services encouraging you to shoot.....which is fine, but there's a motivation.

 

[gbflyer]

I suggest reading Tony Boyer's book.... and Harold Vaughn's as well. I also suggest paying consideration to product pushers telling you to use a lot of their products.

Find some interviews with Speedy Gonzales, Jim Borden, Wayne Campbell.....any of the guys that prove accuracy through results. These guys don't sell products or have brand loyalty issues.

Much of the internet advice you'll find is from people selling products or services encouraging you to shoot.....which is fine, but there's a motivation.

Brand loyalty issues? I’m confused.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Packmansion]

I could care less about Hornady bullets. I'm not a fanboy of any product. Shoot berger shoot swaged dog poop for all I care...

I do plan to do a cute little science fair experiment for rokslide one of these days just time has been tight lately.

Summary:
-3 shot groups = waste of time
-to do a true seating depth and charge test you would have to shoot far too many rounds to make it worth your while, therefore seating depth doesnt matter, charge weight doesnt matter.
-this doesnt not mean charge weight and seating depth do not matter entirely, put something together within the reasonable bounds as recommended by the manufacturer/manual/industry best practice and spend more time shooting stuff and less time developing chasing statistical noise convincing yourself that your rifle is a unicorn of the ages
-Pro shooters, navy seals, hunters etc. do not necessarily understand physics or science and they are not necessarily well suited for explaining scientific phenomena despite their experience as operators
-number of books read does not dictate intelligence, or understanding
-There is a lot of appeal to authority in the shooting community which drives me up the wall. I dont care how many competitions someone wins this does not mean they understand the science at all.

I apologize for being condescending. Thats something I should do less of.