Scalable sleep system

[robertchutch]

Alright im thinking out a scalable sleep system that keeps my pack weight relatively light at most above zero temps and im looking for a quick sanity check.


Shelter: OR Helium Bivy

Base: 30 deg quilt/sleeping bag (Thinking an REI magma 30)

Pad: Thermarest neoair xlite


Insulation plan

60-80 deg: Ditch the base insulation for a jungle blanket

40-60 deg: Just the sleeping bag

Temps getting close to 30 deg: merino base layers, fleece cap and extra pair of socks

0-30 deg: Down puffy top, fleece bottom, extra pair of socks and maybe gloves


Thoughts?

 

[sneaky]

Magma 30 doesn't have a lot of internal room, means if you wear layers to sleep in they'll get compressed and may not work as well as you hope. Tight bivies like that have issues with condensation, how you plan on mitigating that?

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[robertchutch]

Magma 30 doesn't have a lot of internal room, means if you wear layers to sleep in they'll get compressed and may not work as well as you hope. Tight bivies like that have issues with condensation, how you plan on mitigating that?

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Do you think the magma quilt would work better to incorporate layers?

As far as condensation, I figured not sealing it up (bug net configuration)would work well and on rainy days, set up a small 6-7oz or so tarp over me

 

[jolemons]

Knowing myself, I would be miserable in that setup below about 30 degrees. For a comfort rating, I would add about 10 degrees to the bag rating. I also find that a puffy, doesn't add that much warmth, maybe 10-15 degrees at the most for me with down pants and jacket along with socks and base layers. Best you can do is test it out and gradually work your way down to find your lowest acceptable temperature to sleep comfortably.

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[canyonhunter47]

I think it’s a good general concept but I haven’t used that specific bag and I think you’re probably optimistic on the lower end of you’re plan.

I froze my butt off a few years back in 5° with a 30° “comfort” bag (15-20 was the listed rating IIRC) and more clothes than you have planned and a liner.

Fwiw Sitka’s 30° sleeping bag “system” recommends far more clothes than a jacket and fleece pants for 10° (Link)

 

[justinspicher]

I have been doing a system like this for the past few years. I use a set of quilts instead of a bag. I have two quilts, both 30°, one is down and one is synthetic. No bivy. The bivy always made everything an issue and I was constantly fighting condensation.

I put the down inside the synthetic and sleep on a cot. Done and done. So far I haven’t needed much more than a base layer too and bottom inside. I’ve inly used this down to about 5° though.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I would test my system before I went on a deep woods trip. A few thoughts:

- I own both an OR helium and a borah bivy. I strongly prefer bora.
- quilt sleeping is an art. I do it in temps above freezing but at some point I want a bag. Practice if you plan to do that
- as far as bag temp, if you want to stretch a bag down to freezing start with something rated 20* and consider an over bag or blanket. I have done a 20* bag, woombie over top and some layers in cold conditions and Been fine. If you spend a lot of time in cold conditions, a 0* bag is worth it.
- my neoair was loud enough to bother my campmates. I swapped it for an xtherm ans now a sea to summit ether lite. It weighs 6oz more than the neoair but sleeps like a dream.

 

[robertchutch]

I have been doing a system like this for the past few years. I use a set of quilts instead of a bag. I have two quilts, both 30°, one is down and one is synthetic. No bivy. The bivy always made everything an issue and I was constantly fighting condensation.

I put the down inside the synthetic and sleep on a cot. Done and done. So far I haven’t needed much more than a base layer too and bottom inside. I’ve inly used this down to about 5° though.

id figure the synthetic would be best close to body for moisture management right?

Also what kind of weight does the cot add?

 

[Drenalin]

I have been doing a system like this for the past few years. I use a set of quilts instead of a bag. I have two quilts, both 30°, one is down and one is synthetic. No bivy. The bivy always made everything an issue and I was constantly fighting condensation.

I put the down inside the synthetic and sleep on a cot. Done and done. So far I haven’t needed much more than a base layer too and bottom inside. I’ve inly used this down to about 5° though.

I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that you're using a pad on that cot - what model pad?

 

[Hussar]

As others have pointed out: do you know how you handle temperatures while out? I think that's going to be key for building out your layering system.

I do have the REI Magma 30 Long bag and the NeoAir XLite pad as my sleep set up. I'm someone living in Phoenix, AZ and my blood has thinned out, so I don't handle the cold nearly as well as I used to. The Magma bag isn't the most roomy bag (I'm 6'0/225lbs). I can zip it up while wearing a puffy and hoodie, but it's tight.

I'm comfortable down to about 40 degrees in a lightweight shirt (t-shirt/long sleeve t-shirt) and shorts in this bag. You can always unzip it to vent if it gets too warm.

From 40 degrees - 30 degrees, I'll add either a base layer or sweatshirt up top and wear pants. This seems to be plenty for myself. I may double up on socks if it's going to be closer to 30.

30-20 will get the sweatshirt and a puffy, along with base layers under my pants and two pairs of socks. This kept me plenty warm through the night. As mentioned above, fit can be a bit tight with all the layers, but I didn't notice any loss of insulation.

I haven't had a chance to take it down below 20, but I'm guestimating I'd probably have to draw the line somewhere around the mid-teens for what this system would do. I haven't tried a bivy or anything else. This has all been in a tent.

 

[robertchutch]

As others have pointed out: do you know how you handle temperatures while out? I think that's going to be key for building out your layering system.

I do have the REI Magma 30 Long bag and the NeoAir XLite pad as my sleep set up. I'm someone living in Phoenix, AZ and my blood has thinned out, so I don't handle the cold nearly as well as I used to. The Magma bag isn't the most roomy bag (I'm 6'0/225lbs). I can zip it up while wearing a puffy and hoodie, but it's tight.

I'm comfortable down to about 40 degrees in a lightweight shirt (t-shirt/long sleeve t-shirt) and shorts in this bag. You can always unzip it to vent if it gets too warm.

From 40 degrees - 30 degrees, I'll add either a base layer or sweatshirt up top and wear pants. This seems to be plenty for myself. I may double up on socks if it's going to be closer to 30.

30-20 will get the sweatshirt and a puffy, along with base layers under my pants and two pairs of socks. This kept me plenty warm through the night. As mentioned above, fit can be a bit tight with all the layers, but I didn't notice any loss of insulation.

I haven't had a chance to take it down below 20, but I'm guestimating I'd probably have to draw the line somewhere around the mid-teens for what this system would do. I haven't tried a bivy or anything else. This has all been in a tent.

Recently camped down to 20 deg in a tarptent, xlite sleeping pad, kelty cosmic 20 and merino base layers.

Really only part of me that was cold was my feet so an extra pair of socks is mandatory.

I have heard that Bivys add a bit of heat to the system so it might help out on the temp end of things

 

[Vandy321]

A 30 deg REI bag will not go down to zero...puffy on or not. A 30 dog WM with a liner and a woobie, maybe.

 

[robertchutch]

A 30 deg REI bag will not go down to zero...puffy on or not. A 30 dog WM with a liner and a woobie, maybe.

You think a 15 would be better as an all arounder? I worry about being too hot in spring and fall with a thicker bag.

 

[Lando]

You think a 15 would be better as an all arounder? I worry about being too hot in spring and fall with a thicker bag.

Unzip the bag and use it like a quilt in warmer temps.

 

[ljalberta]

You might be a warmer sleeper than anyone I've ever met, but I certainly don't know anyone who could get away with a puffy, base layers, and a 30 degree bag in 0 temperatures for any extended period of time. If you're using a 30* quilt, well I imagine that would be an unbelievably miserable experience if you move around at all while you sleep.

As a note, I love quilts, but for me personally, I take a bag when nighttime temperatures are expected to be consistently below zero. Not only am I warmer, but in the mornings, or if you're spending some extended time in the tent, you can sit up in your bag and move around without dumping all the heat out the back side like with a quilt.

A true 0 night is COLD to sleep in. I would definitely recommend that you get some nights out in your yard or local woods with your sleep system at temperature you plan to run it in before taking it on a hunting trip, as bad sleeps can ruin hunts.

I would also recommend getting a little thermometer that you can put outside of the tent when you're testing your system to get an accurate reading. There's a fair bit of people who look at a regional temperature forecasts and think they slept at that temperature, when in reality they're sleeping in temperatures 10+ warmer. Once they get into the real cold, then they can't sleep.

 

[Vandy321]

You think a 15 would be better as an all arounder? I worry about being too hot in spring and fall with a thicker bag.

Yeessir, my personal opinion. Stick your leg out if you get hot. I sleep in a 15 degree WM all year round.

 

[robertchutch]

Unzip the bag and use it like a quilt in warmer temps.

any recs on a light durable 15 deg bag? Kuiu?

 

[Lando]

I don't have any experience with the Kuiu, but I have had great experiences with the WM Badger and the SG Chilkoot working at or below 15 degrees. There is a very favorable review on the Kuiu on this forum though from Rokslide staff.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

It’s one thing to tweak some extra warmth on an unexpected cold snap but it’s entirely different to attempt to wring out an additional 30+ degrees on a consistent basis.

My advice: get two different bags that cover a wide range of temperatures and a pad with a high R rating.

There’s no way I could make my WM MegaLite keep me comfortable in all of the temperatures I sleep in. There’s also no way I could make my WM Antelope keep me comfortable in all of the temperatures that I sleep in.

 

[justinspicher]

I'm assuming, maybe incorrectly, that you're using a pad on that cot - what model pad?

I do use a pad, but I can remember the model off the top of my head, its a seas to summit.