Sanity Check - Reloading Process

[TimberHunter]

Long winded….


About at my wits end and hopefully someone can see my issue. No mater what I’ve changed over the last 3 months and 350 shots I can’t improve my ES of approx 45 fps

Originally I was just using Hornady brass, FL sizing with Lee die, no anneal, H4350 from autotrickler, 147/143/berger140. ES 40-50

Then went to Peterson and Lapua brass (not mixing headstamp) On virgin brass I was seeing 40-50 FPS in two different 6.5cm rifles. On twice fired, I’m using Redding body die to set shoulder back, Lee collet to set approx .001 neck tension and induction DIY annealer. Same 40 ish fps ES.

Then tried same above process but with one size smaller collet that gave me approx .0035” neck tension. Also used imperial dry neck lube on the ID. Bullets seated consistently with what felt like same force and still ES of approx 40 over only 10 shots.


So… I’ve tried these and they didn’t make a difference:

- Different brass
- Different bullets
- changed to fed 210M
- changed neck tension and even used dry lube
- changed die setup

One of the common themes is I’m using H4350. But that is suppose to be the best stuff for 6.5cm and I’ve tried it in two completely different rifles with similar ES/SD so I’m doubtful that’s my issue.

Anyone see any red flags?


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[Lawnboi]

Virgin brass is tricky. But I’m guessing you don’t have any of that left. If you do I have something to try.

Next, I don’t find once fired brass to be super consistent, as far as overall dimensions it seems like it’s still trying to grow to the chamber. Normally from the 3rd loading on I see much more consistency. I especially notice this because I trim on a giraud that trims off the shoulder, not oal. Differences in brass size become noticeable.

I also seat on an arbor press. I can feel if something is off.

Dry lube in the necks cause me nothing but problems.

How are you tumbling?

What do your SDs look like?

 

[TimberHunter]

Virgin brass is tricky. But I’m guessing you don’t have any of that left. If you do I have something to try.

Next, I don’t find once fired brass to be super consistent, as far as overall dimensions it seems like it’s still trying to grow to the chamber. Normally from the 3rd loading on I see much more consistency. I especially notice this because I trim on a giraud that trims off the shoulder, not oal. Differences in brass size become noticeable.

I also seat on an arbor press. I can feel if something is off.

Dry lube in the necks cause me nothing but problems.

How are you tumbling?

What do your SDs look like?

I do have about 7 pieces of virgin Lapua that I was saving in case of something like this.. what are you suggesting to try?

SD in the mid to low teens

Not tumbling, just 70% alcohol on a towel and then let them completely dry


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[JF_Idaho]

I'm guessing SD is somewhere around 10?

Everything erything you're doing seems good. Any chance you're letting any cook in the chamber?

 

[TimberHunter]

I'm guessing SD is somewhere around 10?

Everything erything you're doing seems good. Any chance you're letting any cook in the chamber?

SD usually around 12-15.

I was I was but I have been hyper aware of chamber cooking rounds as to not make the ES any worse lol


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[Lawnboi]

I do have about 7 pieces of virgin Lapua that I was saving in case of something like this.. what are you suggesting to try?

SD in the mid to low teens

Not tumbling, just 70% alcohol on a towel and then let them completely dry


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Virgin premium brass is pretty sticky in the necks. I mandrel with a wet lube, I use imperial wax, and then tumble, dry tumble in walnut or corn cob media for an hour or 2. This sizes without sticking and smooths out the grittiness of the necks. Same can be said for after annealing, it gets stickier again, and imperial graphite dosnt work, amp will even warn not to use graphite after annealing. That said clean brass can be sticky. I used to treat virgin firing on premium brass as sacrificial until I started doing the above.

Depending what you’re using for a lube you also might not be getting it all off. Personally I dry tumble all my brass in walnut or corn cob media. Cleans enough but leaves enough carbon in the necks to make seating smooth.

Your SD is not terrible. I would continue shooting changing only one thing at a time. Paying close attention to seating force. On top of that your sizing practices if good, you will likely see more consistency in your brass after it really forms to the chamber.

Don’t hyper focus on a small SD. Good news is now with something like a Garmin I can do some positional practice while assessing these changes.

 

[JF_Idaho]

And you're using a auto trickler with an fx120i ?

In your other thread you said an intellidropper....big difference there.

 

[TimberHunter]

And you're using a auto trickler with an fx120i ?

In your other thread you said an intellidropper....big difference there.

Sorry I honestly didn’t know the AT was a thing until I looked it up. I meant AT as a catch all for powder measures like Intellidropper. I’m using the Intellidropper…


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[JF_Idaho]

Sorry I honestly didn’t know the AT was a thing until I looked it up. I meant AT as a catch all for powder measures like Intellidropper. I’m using the Intellidropper…


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That's probably it. Not to pick on the intellidropper, but there is definitely room to improve. With the rounding error that was kind of discussed in the other thread there is probably up to 3/10 of a grain variability there. I bet even if you threw like 2/10 under and hand trickled up to target weight you could improve those numbers.

 

[Lawnboi]

Sorry I honestly didn’t know the AT was a thing until I looked it up. I meant AT as a catch all for powder measures like Intellidropper. I’m using the Intellidropper…


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I’d say that’s a pretty good SD for that dispenser. I had similar with my chargemaster.

Not to say it won’t do the job

 

[SDHNTR]

Relax. There’s nothing a 40-45 fps ES can’t do in the field. Unless you are a competitive Benchrest shooter, it’s seriously fine.

I doubt the spread has anything to do with your process. It’s just some barrels are less consistent with certain powders and bullets.

 

[TimberHunter]

I’d say that’s a pretty good SD for that dispenser. I had similar with my chargemaster.

Not to say it won’t do the job

Any suggestions on better ways to measure powder?

I just did a small test where I loaded 5 once fired that were freshly annealed and 8 that were on second firing (not freshly annealed). I FL sized both groups. ES was 32 on the 8 non freshly annealed (ES was 18 until the final shot) and 44 on the freshly annealed 5. So as far as how I anneal it seems to not be helping me from an ES standpoint. Annealing did help with consistent shoulder bump though


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[Lawnboi]

Any suggestions on better ways to measure powder?

I just did a small test where I loaded 5 once fired that were freshly annealed and 8 that were on second firing (not freshly annealed). I FL sized both groups. ES was 32 on the 8 non freshly annealed (ES was 18 until the final shot) and 44 on the freshly annealed 5. So as far as how I anneal it seems to not be helping me from an ES standpoint. Annealing did help with consistent shoulder bump though


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I use a v4 auto trickler. I started with a chargemaster and wanted faster/more accurate, and the v4 auto tricker really was the option.

I’d have to hear the rest of what you’re using for sizing.

What are you shooting it from? Factory chambers can sometimes be alittle harder to load low SD ammo. This is really hard to diagnose over the internet.

 

[TimberHunter]

I use a v4 auto trickler. I started with a chargemaster and wanted faster/more accurate, and the v4 auto tricker really was the option.

I’d have to hear the rest of what you’re using for sizing.

What are you shooting it from? Factory chambers can sometimes be alittle harder to load low SD ammo. This is really hard to diagnose over the internet.

Shooting it from a 6.5 tikka. Rifles has +-500 shots on it. It produces ES in the 20s with Hornady precision 143 ammo. If I don’t try factory ammo I’d chaulk it up to my reloads to as best as the ES/SD gets


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[Mulyhuntr]

How'd you arrive on the powder charge you're using? Have you tried a mandrel to ensure consistent neck tension? If I find a load that shoots and has an sd of around 10 or less I call it good. 40fps with a 147 is within the killing zone of most animals at 600 yards.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

Shooting it from a 6.5 tikka. Rifles has +-500 shots on it. It produces ES in the 20s with Hornady precision 143 ammo. If I don’t try factory ammo I’d chaulk it up to my reloads to as best as the ES/SD gets


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Looking through my 147 and h4350 (tikka) data and most of my es/sd numbers are similar to yours in your first post. My go-to load that consistently shoots .4" 5-shot groups is 13.6/37 on one 5-shot string and 11.4/30 on another.

You may give reloder 16 a try. It's faster and has slightly better es/sd for me.

What are your groups like at distance with your current load?

 

[TimberHunter]

How'd you arrive on the powder charge you're using? Have you tried a mandrel to ensure consistent neck tension? If I find a load that shoots and has an sd of around 10 or less I call it good. 40fps with a 147 is within the killing zone of most animals at 600 yards.

I check for pressure, didn’t find it at 40.8 but backed off half a grain to 40.3 and it shoots well at 100 for 10 shot groups.

Form recently covered the SD thing and how it doesn’t really matter for hunting distances but I’m just trying to atleast get to what factory Hornady does in my rifle (+- 20 ES with good grouping)


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[TimberHunter]

Looking through my 147 and h4350 (tikka) data and most of my es/sd numbers are similar to yours in your first post. My go-to load that consistently shoots .4" 5-shot groups is 13.6/37 on one 5-shot string and 11.4/30 on another.

You may give reloder 16 a try. It's faster and has slightly better es/sd for me.

What are your groups like at distance with your current load?

Good info, thanks

My ES data is usually from 5-10 shots which may explain my slightly higher ES numbers. I’ll go see what power I can find locally. Last time I checked before buying 6lbs of H4350 I found some stabil 6.5 which I’ve head good things about as well


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[Mulyhuntr]

Fwiw I'm at 41.5 h4350 with a 147. More case fill could improve your numbers. I assume 40.3 isn't compressed?

 

[TimberHunter]

Fwiw I'm at 41.5 h4350 with a 147. More case fill could improve your numbers. I assume 40.3 isn't compressed?

Correct. The book says 40.5 is max. I’ve shot close to what your saying in Hornady brass and didn’t see pressure signs but had a feeling it was over pressure so didn’t keep shooting it even though it shot well

I load them at COAL of 2.910


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