S2H winter class 2026 observations and lessons learned

[24valve]

@24valve What fleece are you wearing in this photo. I had a tab open in my phone with it for a long time but can’t remember the name.

Looks like Beyond…

Yep, beyond's alpha direct midlayer. I found it on their outlet for around $50, and is on the thicker side of AD garments. There's several ultralight backpacking companies that make AD tops in a variety of weights. Lighter wieights will wick/dry faster, but the heavier weights will trap more air when layered over with a windshirt.

Also, what wind shell have you been using.

Several at this point - OR shadow, patagonia mars, rab vital, and a dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation.

Rab vital - More wind blocking, less breathable.
OR shadow - Balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Patagonia mars level 4- durable but heavier than most wind shirts, balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation - More breathable, less wind blocking.

@Small-foot has been using the ugliest, 90's bus seat-looking patagonia houdini I've ever seen, but has been quite happy with its breathability/wind blocking. The zipper did stop working after a year of use, but was fixed by patagonia for free when it was sent in.



There's some good information in this thread as well on different wind shirts: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/wind-breakers-ultra-breathable-raingear.392827/

 

[Ajsomp]

Yep, beyond's alpha direct midlayer. I found it on their outlet for around $50, and is on the thicker side of AD garments. There's several ultralight backpacking companies that make AD tops in a variety of weights. Lighter wieights will wick/dry faster, but the heavier weights will trap more air when layered over with a windshirt.


Several at this point - OR shadow, patagonia mars, rab vital, and a dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation.

Rab vital - More wind blocking, less breathable.
OR shadow - Balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Patagonia mars level 4- durable but heavier than most wind shirts, balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation - More breathable, less wind blocking.

@Small-foot has been using the ugliest, 90's bus seat-looking patagonia houdini I've ever seen, but has been quite happy with its breathability/wind blocking. The zipper did stop working after a year of use, but was fixed by patagonia for free when it was sent in.

There's some good information in this thread as well on different wind shirts: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/wind-breakers-ultra-breathable-raingear.392827/

I have the Patagonia level 4 and the Patagonia Houdini. The level 4 has a hood, the Houdini I have does not. The level 4 zips all the way up, the Houdini is a pull over with button snaps (at least the version I have).

I actually prefer no hood, but the level 4 rolls up into the collar at least. I get annoyed when I have a base layer, mid layer, and a shell all having hoods stack up. Personal preference I suppose.

 

[Small-foot]

Yep, beyond's alpha direct midlayer. I found it on their outlet for around $50, and is on the thicker side of AD garments. There's several ultralight backpacking companies that make AD tops in a variety of weights. Lighter wieights will wick/dry faster, but the heavier weights will trap more air when layered over with a windshirt.


Several at this point - OR shadow, patagonia mars, rab vital, and a dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation.

Rab vital - More wind blocking, less breathable.
OR shadow - Balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Patagonia mars level 4- durable but heavier than most wind shirts, balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation - More breathable, less wind blocking.

@Small-foot has been using the ugliest, 90's bus seat-looking patagonia houdini I've ever seen, but has been quite happy with its breathability/wind blocking. The zipper did stop working after a year of use, but was fixed by patagonia for free when it was sent in.

There's some good information in this thread as well on different wind shirts: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/wind-breakers-ultra-breathable-raingear.392827/

Just proof that humans care more about our patterns and colors out there than animals do…also it’s fun to hear the groan of disgust every time I put it on

But yes, I do love my Houdini jacket. I wasn’t thrilled with the zipper issue, but it was being worn 2-4 days on average all year and daily throughout hunting season when we were out. Patagonia fixed it and I had it back in about 8-10 weeks I think. We have friends that have also had a bit of Patagonia zipper issues too, so that’s something to keep in mind.

I did look at the RAB vital and hear good things, I tried one that was a bit large on me and let air in at the hem, so not a good head to head test, but it did seem less breathable and warmer than the houdini.

 

[Ajsomp]

Yep, beyond's alpha direct midlayer. I found it on their outlet for around $50, and is on the thicker side of AD garments. There's several ultralight backpacking companies that make AD tops in a variety of weights. Lighter wieights will wick/dry faster, but the heavier weights will trap more air when layered over with a windshirt.


Several at this point - OR shadow, patagonia mars, rab vital, and a dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation.

Rab vital - More wind blocking, less breathable.
OR shadow - Balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Patagonia mars level 4- durable but heavier than most wind shirts, balance of breathability/wind blocking.
Dynafit hybrid with alpha direct insulation - More breathable, less wind blocking.

@Small-foot has been using the ugliest, 90's bus seat-looking patagonia houdini I've ever seen, but has been quite happy with its breathability/wind blocking. The zipper did stop working after a year of use, but was fixed by patagonia for free when it was sent in.

There's some good information in this thread as well on different wind shirts: https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/wind-breakers-ultra-breathable-raingear.392827/

Have you been rocking a long sleeve or shortsleeved synthetic shirt over the wool base layer? I’ve been debating both

 

[24valve]

Have you been rocking a long sleeve or shortsleeved synthetic shirt over the wool base layer? I’ve been debating both

I usually prefer a long sleeve mostly to keep the woolnet from snagging on things. I run warm and usually don't wear a midlayer while hiking unless it's very cold or I'm intentionally moving slow, so I probably am also in my base layers more than some.

 

[Ajsomp]

I usually prefer a long sleeve mostly to keep the woolnet from snagging on things. I run warm and usually don't wear a midlayer while hiking unless it's very cold or I'm intentionally moving slow, so I probably am also in my base layers more than some.

Yeah I’m the same. I think I wore a merino tshirt under the OV midlayer last year but I never ended up taking off the midlayer so it was probably pointless.

I tend to run hot so I’ll probably just use the same sunshirt in both seasons and see if I notice a difference in pulling the moisture.

Been down an alpha direct rabbit hole the last few days as well.

 

[24valve]

Yeah I’m the same. I think I wore a merino tshirt under the OV midlayer last year but I never ended up taking off the midlayer so it was probably pointless.

I tend to run hot so I’ll probably just use the same sunshirt in both seasons and see if I notice a difference in pulling the moisture.

Been down an alpha direct rabbit hole the last few days as well.

I have been wanting to try a lightweight alpha shirt over woolnet, but haven't been able to find one without a hood that's also in stock. I would guess that is a fantastic combo for moisture management that wouldn't get too hot.

 

[Ajsomp]

I have been wanting to try a lightweight alpha shirt over woolnet, but haven't been able to find one without a hood that's also in stock. I would guess that is a fantastic combo for moisture management that wouldn't get too hot.

Alpha™ Direct 90 Hoodie Men's | Made in New Hampshire | Burgeon Outdoor

Polartec® Alpha™ Direct 90 Hoodie | Made in Lincoln, New Hampshire, the heart of the White Mountains. A lightweight insulating layer that not only keeps you warm, but dumps excess heat to keep you comfortable. Pair with a shell to keep you warm in windy and wet conditions. Made in the USA with...

www.burgeonoutdoor.com

LEVE Alpha 60 Crewneck

The same Alpha 60 fabric, just without the hood. The Alpha 60 Crewneck is for when you want the warmth of Alpha Direct without a hood getting in the way of your pack straps, helmet, or just general life. Cleaner silhouette, same breathability, still stupid light. Polartec Alpha Direct 60gsm...

leveoutdoorco.com

Seen a couple others today but I have to go back through. Lots of manufacturers

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Yeah I’m the same. I think I wore a merino tshirt under the OV midlayer last year but I never ended up taking off the midlayer so it was probably pointless.

I tend to run hot so I’ll probably just use the same sunshirt in both seasons and see if I notice a difference in pulling the moisture.

Been down an alpha direct rabbit hole the last few days as well.

I do this (SS merino under OV or Sitka mid) and when it is cool enough it’s nice but some times i just get too damn hot. I think having a UL/syn
Sun hoody is a good add, and/or a wind shirt. The OV mid has an incredible temp range but early fall or spring on warmer days it gets to be too much, for me.

 

[Small-foot]

Yeah I’m the same. I think I wore a merino tshirt under the OV midlayer last year but I never ended up taking off the midlayer so it was probably pointless.

I tend to run hot so I’ll probably just use the same sunshirt in both seasons and see if I notice a difference in pulling the moisture.

Been down an alpha direct rabbit hole the last few days as well.

Octa fabric is another rabbit hole you could look into as well. I made a zip up hoodie out of 85gsm brushed octa. It was my first foray into diy clothes so it has its issues as far as fit goes. In terms of breathability it is better than the beyond alpha, but that one is over double the weight so not really a fair comparison there. I will say I felt as comfortable in the octa over Woolnet while hiking with a pack as I do when I throw a lightweight synthetic long sleeve over the woolnet, but the octa is much warmer when I put a windshirt over it compared to a synthetic long sleeve.

 

[Ajsomp]

Octa fabric is another rabbit hole you could look into as well. I made a zip up hoodie out of 85gsm brushed octa. It was my first foray into diy clothes so it has its issues as far as fit goes. In terms of breathability it is better than the beyond alpha, but that one is over double the weight so not really a fair comparison there. I will say I felt as comfortable in the octa over Woolnet while hiking with a pack as I do when I throw a lightweight synthetic long sleeve over the woolnet, but the octa is much warmer when I put a windshirt over it compared to a synthetic long sleeve.

I’ll give it a look. I scored a beyond alpha pretty cheap and will compare it to the 60 gsm hoodie from senchi. Not sure if 60 or 90 will be better as I run hot- but I feel like the beyond is for when it’s really colder.

 

[pdjp1220]

Is it necessary or beneficial to have a spotting scope with a reticle for the class?