Running, is it beneficial or not?

[zman]

+1

If transitioning to minimalist shoes or barefoot, please take it very slow. Start off with a 1/2 mile run and add no more than a 1/2 mile per week if running 3 times per week. Your feet are probably atrophied in those cushy coffin shoes you are use to wearing and will need some time to rebuild the muscles and the bone structure.

I wear minimalist shoes all the time and can't stand wearing regular shoes or boots anymore.

What do you hunt in? I wore a pair of Merrell Proterras last year on my elk hunt but they started leaking already. Very few lightweight boots to choose from out there. I hike alot in sneakers or five fingers but for off trail I need a little more protection.

 

[Lukem]

The Taras didn't have pillow shoes. You are correct that proper running form is somewhat natural if you have "natural", IE biomechanically correct footgear (or no footgear). You are also correct that caution is advised with barefoot/POSE running form, as I and others have repeatedly stated. Running in pillow shoes creates marked muscle and connective tissue imbalances between the upper and lower leg. POSE form puts tremendous stress on the ankle/achillees/plantar fascia etc. The muscles come around PDQ but connective tissues take 2-3 times longer. It took me a full year to get up to five miles in New Balance crossfit type shoes. Now it is just the way I run. If I go past 5mi I'll get really sore hamstrings/soleus and my primary wear point on my shoes is under the ball of my foot.

Maybe you are correct about all this being a "cult", as Crossfit considers POSE the only correct running form, so they're all cultists as well? I guess that means Dr Kelly Starrett is a "cultist" as well, as he considers POSE the only proper running form.

No idea who Dr Starrett is so I won't make that connection. But, by and large Crossfit is very cultish. I'd guess they endorse Pose so that they can teach it to you. The exercises the way that jmez mentioned aren't cultish in themselves, but the culture that follows very much is.

Our bodies are so very different that there isn't one specific thing that works across the board (other than eating right) and anybody that tells you otherwise is generally trying to sell you something.

I'd also say that if you can't run more than 5, that can't be healthy either. I don't want to do something that puts extra stress on my body, I want to be efficient in the way I run. My goal is to get from point A to B as fast as possible. The distance just dictates the specifics.

I know I'm blessed with good natural mechanics and haven't had to worry or think about these things the way that others have, but I think we unnecessarily overcomplicate even the most simple of things.

BB that was an excellent article. The same application would go for cars and engines. We don't run the same oil, fuel, motor configurations, tires, shocks, etc in all our vehicles. The application dictates what is needed. Same with our bodies. The premise of running is the same, but individuals are all different in how it functions.

 

[gustafsj]

What do you hunt in? I wore a pair of Merrell Proterras last year on my elk hunt but they started leaking already. Very few lightweight boots to choose from out there. I hike alot in sneakers or five fingers but for off trail I need a little more protection.

I hunt in either my Altra Lone Peaks or if its really cold, my Steger Mukluks. My Altra's are red, so not the opposite of camo, but they have great traction and are very comfortable. Most of the hunting I do is deer rifle and upland bird, so I'm not going after the camo look anyway. With neoprene socks and gaitors, I can take them into some pretty snowy/wet and cold conditions. They are certainly not ideal for those in-between temps, so I am saving up for a pair of minimalist Russell Moccasins with some thinsulate. I know there are some mixed reviews about Russell boots in general, but everything I've found about the minimalist version is that people love them.

I am planning on taking up bowhunting this fall, so am in need of something that will disappear better. I figure I should buy the bow first and start practicing up. Hopefully I can save up enough money for the boots before fall. Otherwise I could always try and dye the Altras.

I know that the Altra Superiors have always come in a Green/Black/Gray mix. That would certainly go better with camo than red.

 

[Lukem]

Keep in mind that I'm using the word "cult" very tongue in cheek. But there are some correlations to be made.

 

[gustafsj]

I am with you jmez. I am a POSE style mid-foot striker, but I would never say there is only one true way to run for everyone.

The very idea of saying someone like Scott Jurek is "doing it wrong" is laughable, even if he is a spring chicken at the tender young age of 41.

Find your stride:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/...-it-harmful-to-heel-strike-when-running_95678

Interesting read. I know for myself, I used to try to go out for a run and within a half mile, my knees would start hurting. Doctor said I had patellofemoral syndrome and that I just wasn't designed to run. I didn't like that answer and started to research. That's when Born to Run had just come out and Fivefingers were just starting to take off. I picked up a pair and when for a 3-mile run with no pain and loved it. Of course my calves were sore for a few weeks, but I was one of those with stronger feet and flexible achilles. I have been barefoot a lot in my life as I had played a ton of sand volleyball.

I loved running so much that I signed up for a 25k trail race and started training. Sure enough about 3 weeks before the race I started having some issues with what was later was diagnosed as an IT band issue. Classic overuse injury; the reality is that I have a weak core and weak hip flexors and my legs just won't track straight when running. That was 5 years ago and I still haven't been able to completely shake the IT Band issue despite trying about 6 months of physical therapy. I do believe that if I were to focus more core exercises, I am confident that I could eventually overcome the IT Band issue. Time will tell.

The reality is that yes, everyone is different. However, for me, running in minimalist shoes fixed my form and resolved my patellofemoral problem. Unfortunately, I didn't know at the time how critical cross-training is and how important a strong and balanced core is to the success of running. I only ran, did nothing else and got all out of balance which caused other issues.

If you are getting injured when running, it could be either that your form does not work for you or it could be that you have some serious muscle imbalances, or both.

Sitting for hours is one of the biggest detriments to muscle balance. Figure out a standing desk and take breaks to walk around the office and do stairs. If you drive a lot, take frequent breaks to get out and walk around.

Saw this video yesterday... pretty cool and inspiring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qWhwNFaBwc

 

[Take-a-knee]

No idea who Dr Starrett is so I won't make that connection.

The supple leopard:

http://www.suppleleopard.com/

 

[Lukem]

In Dr. Starrett's new book, Ready to Run, you will be taught the essential standards for preparing your body for a lifetime of top-performance running. You won't only be ready to run in a minimalist shoe, you'll be prepared to run in any shoe.

My emphasis on "any", but that quote from the "about" page of the Ready to Run book tells me that he is probably pretty open minded. I haven't read anything other than what was on his website, but it seems like he has some excellent points and is doing some good things. IMO selling a book is different than selling a subscription or training to be a teacher of a technique. A book says that you're willing to put what you're doing out there to the masses and that there's no exclusive club to belong to (and defend). He might use Pose, but looking at the runners in his video, he isn't overly strict about it. Lots of midfoot, a fair amount of heelers, and no 5 Fingers.

 

[Take-a-knee]

The guys over at Crossfit Endurance (Brian McKenzie for one) do marathons in skateboard shoes, just to prove a point. NOT recommending that. Starrett put up a mobility video on youtube every day for a year. Most any athletic ailment he's got some sort of stretch/tweak that will help.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Shouldn't the same biomechanics work for walking as do for running, to some degree with less impact and strain of course? So you should always walk with no heel stoke too?

 

[Take-a-knee]

Shouldn't the same biomechanics work for walking as do for running, to some degree with less impact and strain of course? So you should always walk with no heel stoke too?

If you're sneakin' up on a buck, yeah! Otherwise, a heel-toe footfall is more efficient. The impact forces are a tiny fraction of what they are while running. Try both barefoot on smooth pavement and you tell us what you think.

 

[zman]

Sitting for hours is one of the biggest detriments to muscle balance. Figure out a standing desk and take breaks to walk around the office and do stairs. If you drive a lot, take frequent breaks to get out and walk around.​

Just got a standing (adjustable) desk last week. Called Variodesk. Pretty sweet so far. Not the best looking addition to my office but the function is great. Spending a couple more hours a day on my feet. Love it so far.

 

[dreamingbig]

Me too! I have had a standing desk since November. It has helped a lot in reducing muscle tweaks in my calves.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I thought this was interesting and applicable to this thread.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/9/5695290...stem-confirm-that-barefoot-shoes-are-bullshit

 

[gustafsj]

This is simply an overuse injury Anybody who has read in depth about transitioning into minimalist shoes or barefoot running, knows this. Had VFF put more warnings and instructions on their shoe boxes about the need to slowly transition, they would have been protected.

Anybody knows that if you don't do any training for a backpacking trip and then throw on a 50 lb pack, you will probably get injured. Or if haven't been lifting weights, and start off with the heaviest weights you can lift, you will probably get injured. Unfortunately the knowledge wasn't there yet or wasn't communicated well enough that the transition to barefoot wear was similar.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

This is simply an overuse injury Anybody who has read in depth about transitioning into minimalist shoes or barefoot running, knows this. Had VFF put more warnings and instructions on their shoe boxes about the need to slowly transition, they would have been protected.

Anybody knows that if you don't do any training for a backpacking trip and then throw on a 50 lb pack, you will probably get injured. Or if haven't been lifting weights, and start off with the heaviest weights you can lift, you will probably get injured. Unfortunately the knowledge wasn't there yet or wasn't communicated well enough that the transition to barefoot wear was similar.

That's not exactly true. The law suit was due to false advertising claims based on lack of scientific studies proving the benefits that the shoes were supposed to give.

 

[Take-a-knee]

That's not exactly true. The law suit was due to false advertising claims based on lack of scientific studies proving the benefits that the shoes were supposed to give.

So, if several guys who've transitioned to minimal shoes, learned the proper running form, and can complete ultras with zero leg injury is null and void because a few fat, poorly trained people who couldn't follow the simple instructions that came with their shoes, went out and ran their first 5K tempo run of the year in their new shoes and got themselves hurt does? Just askin...

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

So, if several guys who've transitioned to minimal shoes, learned the proper running form, and can complete ultras with zero leg injury is null and void because a few fat, poorly trained people who couldn't follow the simple instructions that came with their shoes, went out and ran their first 5K tempo run of the year in their new shoes and got themselves hurt does? Just askin...

Again false. The law suit was based on false advertising because claims were made about the shoes having been scientifically proven, when in fact as proven by the case, there were insufficient studies performed to make these claims. I understand this is something you are passionate about and these shoes and this style may yet prove to be the end all be all of running but by legal standards they have not yet been proven.

 

[rhendrix]

 

[Take-a-knee]

Again false. The law suit was based on false advertising because claims were made about the shoes having been scientifically proven, when in fact as proven by the case, there were insufficient studies performed to make these claims. I understand this is something you are passionate about and these shoes and this style may yet prove to be the end all be all of running but by legal standards they have not yet been proven.

You are still confused. This isn't about shoes (though your link is, I understand). That is why Brian McKenzie etal ran long races in skateboard shoes, and why the Kenyans can do the same with NO SHOES. It is about learning to run properly.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

You are still confused. This isn't about shoes (though your link is, I understand). That is why Brian McKenzie etal ran long races in skateboard shoes, and why the Kenyans can do the same with NO SHOES. It is about learning to run properly.

No sir, I am not confused at all. My comment was entirely with regards to the lawsuit and yet you gave some excuse about people not training properly and that's the cause which has nothing to do with my link nor what I said. The fact that Brian McKenzie and Kenyans can run in such drastically different footwear just goes to support this lawsuit's ruling. Not once have I spoke out against running form of any sort as I do not at this time have the knowledge sufficient to give an opinion either way. I simply gave a link to a recent lawsuit because footwear has been discussed in this thread so I though it was applicable.