Running, is it beneficial or not?

[Jason Snyder]

You should obtain his data and do a longitudinal study for us all. You know as well as I do that the overwhelming majority of recreational runners run at a pace that is somewhat comfortable for THEM.

Also consider what I posted about life-long Scandanavian X-Country skiers showing a positive correlation between skiing fitness level (and duration of that level) and atrial fibrillation. A synopsis of this is available at Medscape.

If you are not familiar with Dr Barry Sear's writings on inflammation at the cellular level, you should check it out.

I doubt I'll be doing this in my spare time. I'll likely go for a run or a bike ride instead.

 

[IaTrent]

Not a hard and fast number. Depending on how much you weigh and how your strike your foot, this may be sooner or later. If they look/feel worn out, get new ones.



Run 7 days a week if you like to and your body is adapted to that. Everybody is different. I run 4-5 times per week, my weekdays are 10 miles and Saturday from 10-20+. Works for me, never had a major running-related injury (stress fracture running barefoot but that was my own damn fault)



Not sure what you mean here. The biggest benefit for LSD running is endurance/fat-burning. You cannot comfortably run 20 miles if you don't build up to that distance.



Agree but that's different for everybody. Simple refueling/stretching is enough recovery for many people. Do what works for you.



Disagree. You shouldn't feel like you got your butt kicked after every run. That's how you over-train and get hurt. 80%+ of your weekly miles should be easy.

This

 

[rhendrix]

I'll let you guys argue semantics. I'm just trying to lose weight and be in better shape, mainly because I don't want to suck wind at 10k feet and I want to lose some weight.

Here's the plan going forward (I work a 24 on and 48 off schedule):
Day 1: tempo run, core work
Day 2: easy run (AM), full body workout, core work (PM)
Day 3: rest @ work
Day 4: DIstance run, core work
Day 5: HIIT/speed work (AM), full body workout, core work (PM)
Day 6: rest @ work
Day 7: ruck/run (completely optional and based on how I'm feeling)
Day 8: full body workout, core
Day 9: rest @ work
Day 10: repeat day 1

That'll give me 4-5 runs and three full body workouts in the span of 9 days. So potentially 12-15 runs a month and 12 full body workouts. All the workouts I'm doing are basic bare bones stuff. Squat/bench/row and PC/press/DL, 3 sets for 5 reps, except the DL, it's 1 set of 5 reps. I'm increasing the pounds for each lift by 5 pounds every cycle (10 days). I'm not looking to add muscle or anything, I just want to maintain my strength. All I've been doing is running, I miss lifting, so I think this will honestly keep me sane.

I realize on paper it looks like a lot of work. But I think it's manageable. And if I can't recover I'll drop one of the lifting sessions.

Opinions?

 

[airlocksniffer]

I think that looks pretty solid. If you stick with that for a few months and lessen you caloric intake, you will lose weight. I do a couple of days a week of weights but nothing too crazy. I'm not interested in getting totally swole, just strong and cut.

FWIW, when I first started running 10 years ago and training for races, I was very specific about distances, paces, etc. Kinda took the fun out of it for me. While I still have target distances in mind, they are not an absolute. As for paces, I just run how I feel. Most of the time that's somewhere between 8 and 8:30/min mile but sometimes 9-10 if I'm doing hills, etc. If I want to run easy every day, I do. If I feel like doing some fartlek type workouts, so be it. While running is partially about getting in shape/losing weight/training, it has become just something I do. Some of the most relaxing moments I've ever had have been trail running. I still race but not competitively (a little against myself I suppose). I'm not really built to win races so I just enjoy being outside.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Nice post airlocksniffer. I am with you.

rhendrix,

I like the workout outline, I would just ease into it and throw a lot of variety into it as you go.

 

[Jason Snyder]

rhendrix,

I agree with BB. You don't list anticipated times/distance, so it's hard to say if it's too much or not. Listen to your body and watch carefully for signs of overtraining. Don't be afraid to throw in a day of biking too, if you are into that. Cycling is a great active recovery exercise.

Good luck!

Edit: At risk of having my man card revoked, I'd also advise you to do Yoga at least once or twice a week. It will really help your flexibility and recovery and will also help prevent the injuries that are likely to occur due to muscle tightness (i.e. plantar fasciitis).

 

[WRO]

 

[Chrisschwarz]

I used to just hike around with a pack and climb stairs to get in shape for western hunting. I used to run a lot when I was younger, 6 minute miles when in the Marines and I jogged up until I was in my mid-30's then work kind of put a stop to that activity. Trying to get back in running shape, yes some pounds went on. I have been using a tread climber for around 6 months now and between that and cutting firewood I am starting to see some progress. Looking to get back into jogging and going to make sure with the Dr that I am good to go on that end.

What would most people start out with at my age (going on 48) and most likely still 30lbs that I want to lose. I am doing 30 minutes 3-4 times per week depending on recovery if I push 4 days per week at 2.6 miles per hour on the machine. I know what your body tells you but what is a good starting point? Run a block walk a block until my body says enough?

Thanks

 

[PMcGee]

I used to just hike around with a pack and climb stairs to get in shape for western hunting. I used to run a lot when I was younger, 6 minute miles when in the Marines and I jogged up until I was in my mid-30's then work kind of put a stop to that activity. Trying to get back in running shape, yes some pounds went on. I have been using a tread climber for around 6 months now and between that and cutting firewood I am starting to see some progress. Looking to get back into jogging and going to make sure with the Dr that I am good to go on that end.

What would most people start out with at my age (going on 48) and most likely still 30lbs that I want to lose. I am doing 30 minutes 3-4 times per week depending on recovery if I push 4 days per week at 2.6 miles per hour on the machine. I know what your body tells you but what is a good starting point? Run a block walk a block until my body says enough?

Thanks

When I started running again I did a couch to 5k program and it worked pretty well. That was 3yrs ago and I've been running ever since. I'll take some time off here and there but for the most part I run all year. Last weekend I did a 10k in 39:51. I'm planning on doing a half marathon this summer. I mix in some speed workouts and hill workouts to change things up. I also hike with 50lbs in my pack usually 2 times a week and do body weight exercises. I feel this keeps me in pretty good shape for the mountains.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Edit: At risk of having my man card revoked, I'd also advise you to do Yoga at least once or twice a week. It will really help your flexibility and recovery and will also help prevent the injuries that are likely to occur due to muscle tightness (i.e. plantar fasciitis).

I used to do a bit of yoga when cooped up in the Alaskan bush for long winters. Mostly just watching a DVD in the living room. If you can get past the new age feel and any pre-concieved notion of what's manly, it's a good workout. A lot of my stretching now after running is yoga type stretching. I've also done hot yoga classes, which aside from the disgusting amount of sweat-induced humidity, I found it too intense and strained my hamstring.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

I don't run, I've been a flooring installer for to many years and have resulting knee pain to prove it so I baby my knees as much as possible. If I were to start would you guys recommend starting with minimalist shoes? And how do I learn proper form?

 

[Ironman8]

Wow, so much semantics and "absolute truths" being thrown around here that it's just mind-numbing. I wouldn't even know how to address them all, so I'll just shotgun here.

Lift, do some form of cardio/aerobic capacity work (think about what has the most carryover to what it is you are working for...also, keep it varied), keep yourself flexible and tissues healthy, rest well, and eat right (maybe the two most important things). There's alot of ways to do all of these, but if you just focus on doing them with sound technique, timing, volume, AND WITH CONSISTENCY, then you'll be on your way to being a very fit individual.

Everybody is different and no one thing or "way" is right for EVERYBODY. The best way to find out what works for you is to actually get out there and experiment. Listen to your body. Learn from people who will tell you that their way is A way and not THE way...anyone who says it's THE way, should be very suspect. Internet forums should be taken with a grain of salt.

Rhendrix, you know where to find me if you have questions. I'd be happy to help.

 

[Take-a-knee]

I don't run, I've been a flooring installer for to many years and have resulting knee pain to prove it so I baby my knees as much as possible. If I were to start would you guys recommend starting with minimalist shoes? And how do I learn proper form?

For you, I'd recommend minimal/low heeled shoes for WALKING. Then I'd go see a sports medicine ortho doc and get him to do a good knee exam. See what he says first. When and if you start running, take is easy, do run/walks and listen to your body. Lots of vids on the internet on POSE running form. The Crossfit site has a bunch of them. The problem is figuring out if YOU are doing it right. I'm a bit of a tard so it took me awhile. Cushion in a shoe, like New Balance's Fresh Foam shoes, can be a good thing, but I think it can work against someone trying to learn proper form. You need the feedback from the impact to figure it out, and if your lower leg muscles aren't smoked afterwards you are likely still doing it wrong.

 

[airlocksniffer]

I don't run, I've been a flooring installer for to many years and have resulting knee pain to prove it so I baby my knees as much as possible. If I were to start would you guys recommend starting with minimalist shoes? And how do I learn proper form?

Form is a tough thing to instruct on. A lot of running stores will have a treadmill and those folks can assist in determining your foot strike (heel, mid-foot or toe) and whether you have neutral foot movement or over/under pronate. I wore stability shoes for years for what I though was over-pronation. A trip to the podiatrist said I have neutral movement and I change the type of shoes I run in. Some of the best runners in the world don't have perfect form.

As for the shoes, I don't run in minimalist shoes, although my trail runners are pretty darn minimalist. My regular trainers are New Balance 890v4. Pretty cushioned, nice and light and wear well. What I would advise against is grabbing a pair of super minimalist shoes and trying to throw out a bunch of miles. That's a recipe for injury. If you've never run before, start with a run/walk type approach. Run for a minute, walk for two. Slowly increase the time/distance you are running and reduce the walking time. Jeff Galloway instructs this way and has seen people using the run/walk method complete a marathon faster than somebody who just runs. When I race, especially long distance trails, I pretty much walk every uphill. You'd be amazed how much energy you save with how little it actually effects the pace. My racing goal now is feeling good when I finish, not totally destroyed. Good luck!!

EDIT: Looks like T-A-K had some of the same suggestions.

 

[lcxctf2000]

From a guy that has run tens of thousands of miles the thing that most makes my a**hole pucker is the blanket shoe advice. If you get hurt it not only affects your training, but could also affect if you can actually go on your hunt if it's bad enough. Improper footwear selection has the potential to hurt you faster than overtraining or not resting enough.

Go to a trusted running shoe store and talk to an experienced sales person about what shoes are best for you. If they can do a gait analysis, do it. Everybody has a different biomechanics therefore requires different shoes. It all starts with your feet and they affect everything up through knees, hips, and even into lower back/core. Get the wrong shoes because they worked for someone else and you risk getting injured. We are lucky that so many options exist out there - traditional, minimalist, and super cushion. There is a right shoe for you. Trust an expert. Try a bunch on and actually run in them a bit. Buy what feels best and adjust as needed.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Good points lcxctf2000. If you don't have a good local shop, Road Runner Sports has a 90 day return policy, even if you have worn them. May help to order 2 or 3 pairs and see what works best.

 

[Take-a-knee]

Get the wrong shoes because they worked for someone else and you risk getting injured. We are lucky that so many options exist out there - traditional, minimalist, and super cushion. There is a right shoe for you. Trust an expert.

If the "expert" tells you that heel-striking is okay, he ain't an expert on running or running shoes.

 

[Ironman8]

T-A-K,

See the above photos of Scott Jurek (I didn't know who he was until fairly recently, but he is apparently one of the most dominant ultra-distance runners ever)...either way...yup, that's a heel strike. Hmmm.

Also, I would encourage you to read this: http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2014/06/04/minimizing-injury-running-considerations-larger-athletes/

One of the better running articles I've read in a while that actually made sense instead of saying that "This is THE way and the ONLY way". The author is a powerlifter and ultra-marathon racer, which is pretty unique, and as such, brings a unique perspective in to this conversation. In fact, this article would probably be a good read for everyone in this thread.

Also, let it be known, that I agree with you to an extent that mid-foot striking / Pose Method may be more efficient and may be a "better" way to run, but I won't be so closed minded to say that it is the ONLY way to run. You just have to be smart about what technique you choose.

 

[airlocksniffer]

Per Kilian Jornet, who is another of the most dominant ultra-mountain runners of all time:

Every runner has a natural way to run that he must follow and perfect. There are runners who take big strides and runners who prefer small steps. There are runners who run with their head erect and runners who stoop. There are runners who hold themselves in reserve and runners who attack from the very first. There is no way of running that can be imposed on everyone. There is no perfect way for every runner, but everybody has his perfect way of running.

 

[Take-a-knee]

You can find no shortage of slow-motion vids of the top 1% of runners at around mile 20 of the Boston and NY Marathons. You'll see a mix of strides. The correct question to ask is not "Can it be done this way?", but rather what do biomechanics/physics indicate is the best way to avoid injury?

Jurek, like most of the guys/gals you'll see in the vids mentioned above, are YOUNG. Running has a far higher injury rate than any other athletic endeavor. People, like the quote in the above post, think running is "natural". "Just go run". It is anything but. It is a skill to be learned, the same as lifting heavy objects from the ground to overhead. There is a BEST path/technique for it.