Rucking help Running?

[sandhillhunter]

Does weighted rucking help improve running strength or endurance?

I’m curious about this as I am training for a marathon in December.

I really enjoy rucking in preparing for my mountain hunts, but don’t want to waste time doing it if it’s not going to help with distance run training.


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[Coach Chris]

No
Running improves running

 

[Poser]

Professional/competitive runners do not spend time rucking for training.
I agree with the above comment: you'll want to train for a marathon by focusing on running.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

+3. Specificity is one of the fundamental components of training.

With that said, I think employing some muscular endurance training 1-2x/week would be a very wise move to reduce injury risk/improve your running. That's been a huge personal shift for me and several other guys I know who do endurance/ultra/whatever and often advised by coaches in mountain training programs like Uphill Athlete and Evoke.

This podcast is primarily geared at helping people prepare for moving through the mountains with weight, but they have a small blurb about ME and the value it holds for folks doing running and competition without weight. Here is a simple ME workout progression to follow, too.

While not a direct answer to your question, it does have you use weight. One method I've used and like alot is loading my pack with 80lbs to do the movement instead of using a barbell/db/kb, etc...

Best of luck on your marathon!

 

[sandhillhunter]

Thank you all for the info. Kind of what I figured.

I’ve got a good running base. Just wondered about mixing things up.

Plus there’s a memorial ruck for a fallen soldier coming up in a couple of weeks I was thinking about doing.


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[strattonje2020]

If you cant run in zone 2 then rucking will help you, until you can run in zone 2.

 

[mtbraun]

Rucking is a great active recovery method. For example, if you run in the morning, ruck in the evening for a 2 a day.

 

[molliesmaster]

Are you training to win the marathon?

If not, then I think rucking would be a great benefit to your overall health, including your running. I do not think it will hinder your running performance unless you are overtraining.

 

[Poser]

Are you training to win the marathon?

If not, then I think rucking would be a great benefit to your overall health, including your running. I do not think it will hinder your running performance unless you are overtraining.

Rucking is fairly stressful to extremely stressful depending on the load and the grade. It doesn't necessarily feel or is perceived as being stressful in the same way that running is because it is muscular endurance -your leg muscles are "doing the work" vs. being more reliant on the cardiovascular system when running. For this reason, it can be extremely stressful on your legs and taxing on your CNS (You'll experience this with that "heavy leg" feeling), thus impacting your recovery and impacting your training sessions for running.

Marathon training programs are very well established as the data points on them are based on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of successful marathons. None of them include rucking. If a person wants to run and ruck because they enjoy it or because they need to also be in rucking shape, go for it. If a person wants to put up a competitive time or PR in a marathon, focus on a marathon training program. Thorwing in a dose of stressful rucking on top of a marathon training program will negatively impact most anyone's marathon performance.

 

[rickyw]

For me, rucking combined with some heavy A+A kettlebell work, preserved a certain level of running ability when I would go months without running. When I was running 6-7 miles in a session and stopped for months I could come back and do 4.5 or so and then quickly progress back up. It never improved it

 

[molliesmaster]

Rucking is fairly stressful to extremely stressful depending on the load and the grade. It doesn't necessarily feel or is perceived as being stressful in the same way that running is because it is muscular endurance -your leg muscles are "doing the work" vs. being more reliant on the cardiovascular system when running. For this reason, it can be extremely stressful on your legs and taxing on your CNS (You'll experience this with that "heavy leg" feeling), thus impacting your recovery and impacting your training sessions for running.

Marathon training programs are very well established as the data points on them are based on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of successful marathons. None of them include rucking. If a person wants to run and ruck because they enjoy it or because they need to also be in rucking shape, go for it. If a person wants to put up a competitive time or PR in a marathon, focus on a marathon training program. Thorwing in a dose of stressful rucking on top of a marathon training program will negatively impact most anyone's marathon performance.

Nearly every training plan mentions/recommends doing some form of cross-training to supplement your running days and overall fitness to include leg workouts. Cross-training helps prevent injuries. Rucking, as long as it isn't overdone, could be a very beneficial recovery/cross-training exercise.

If he was trialing for the olympics, he wouldn't be reaching out to the rokslide elite for advice.

 

[Poser]

Nearly every training plan mentions/recommends doing some form of cross-training to supplement your running days and overall fitness to include leg workouts. Cross-training helps prevent injuries. Rucking, as long as it isn't overdone, could be a very beneficial recovery/cross-training exercise.

If he was trialing for the olympics, he wouldn't be reaching out to the rokslide elite for advice.

Here is one of the most popular producer's of marathon training programs.

Advanced 1 Marathon Training Program | Hal Higdon

Here is Advanced 1: The training programs for Advanced 1 marathoners follow a progressive buildup–similar to that for novice and Intermediate runners, except you start at 10 miles and peak with three 20-milers. There is also more training at marathon pace (usually Saturdays, the day before...

www.halhigdon.com

If you drop to down to "advanced" program for someone who is already in good running shape, note:

Cross-Training: There’s no cross-training scheduled for advanced runners. Sorry, but we don’t have a place for it. If you feel you need to (or like to) cross train as a means of avoiding injuries (or as a variation from running), you can substitute an aerobic workout (swimming, cycling, walking) for the running you might do on Mondays or Wednesdays.

Also note that rucking is not an aerobic workout, it is Muscular Endurance, so it wouldn't even apply to the exceptions above if an advanced runner wanted to implement it. Again, if you want to put up a good time in a marathon then, even as an advanced runner, it is going to take a considerable amount of training volume over several months to up your race pace to a competitive time over 25 miles. You simply don't have the training capacity for it. If you want to David Goggins it and do some suffering for a sport unto itself, then go for it, but as to the original question: will "rucking help with training for a marathon", the answer is no, its going to impede the training block. If you want to ruck, then ruck. If you need to ruck for a hunt, then ruck, but if you want to focus on the marathon, then run.

 

[P Carter]

Here is one of the most popular producer's of marathon training programs.

Advanced 1 Marathon Training Program | Hal Higdon

Here is Advanced 1: The training programs for Advanced 1 marathoners follow a progressive buildup–similar to that for novice and Intermediate runners, except you start at 10 miles and peak with three 20-milers. There is also more training at marathon pace (usually Saturdays, the day before...

www.halhigdon.com

If you drop to down to "advanced" program for someone who is already in good running shape, note:

Cross-Training: There’s no cross-training scheduled for advanced runners. Sorry, but we don’t have a place for it. If you feel you need to (or like to) cross train as a means of avoiding injuries (or as a variation from running), you can substitute an aerobic workout (swimming, cycling, walking) for the running you might do on Mondays or Wednesdays.

Also note that rucking is not an aerobic workout, it is Muscular Endurance, so it wouldn't even apply to the exceptions above if an advanced runner wanted to implement it. Again, if you want to put up a good time in a marathon then, even as an advanced runner, it is going to take a considerable amount of training volume over several months to up your race pace to a competitive time over 25 miles. You simply don't have the training capacity for it. If you want to David Goggins it and do some suffering for a sport unto itself, then go for it, but as to the original question: will "rucking help with training for a marathon", the answer is no, its going to impede the training block. If you want to ruck, then ruck. If you need to ruck for a hunt, then ruck, but if you want to focus on the marathon, then run.

Agree. Plans that do recommend cross-training - which are pretty few and far between now - do so primarily as "active recovery" and would recommend an activity that provides some supplemental aerobic work but without the fatigue associated with running. So swimming, cycling, eliptical, etc. Rucking would be the opposite of that - similar, but higher, impact forces with an ME emphasis rather than supplemental aerobic.

Most running plans now implement strength work, which is great, but again strength work that develops strength while not adding to the impact forces that you're already accumulating with the running schedule. Not rucking.

Uphill Athlete has a great gym-based ME workout, and again the goal is to develop ME while minimizing the global fatigue that will be accumulating due to the running.

Again, someone should ruck if they want to, but don't do so with the pretense or expectation that it'll benefit running.

 

[sandhillhunter]

[QUOTE="molliesmaster, post: 3826224, member: 12898"If he was trialing for the olympics, he wouldn't be reaching out to the rokslide elite for advice.[/QUOTE]

Look out Los Angeles 2028!

I’m looking to take the gold in the over 55 year old balding male category.

This is all good discussion. I’ll still ruck a bit because I like it, but other than that it’s run and eat well until December 15.

And I am familiar with the Hal Higdon training plans.


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[BoilerBowHunter]

^The Exo guys have an older podcast with a guy named Mike Provost that specifically talks about rucking. I think it has a place for runners. If you're an elite runner (I assume you are not, as 99% of us are not), then it's probably different as some have said.

He's also been on Kyle's (@V2Pnutrition ) Valley to Peak Nutrition podcast! Shoutout to Kyle's awesome podcast!

https://www.otpbooks.com/mike-prevost-ruck-training-programs/

There are resources linked in the podcast, and I have included of them above as well. Their research indicates that rucking is actually more of an aerobic exercise (vs strength) until you cross a threshold of 35-40% of body weight being carried. At that point it becomes more of a strength exercise, but it always has components to both.

Maybe the best thing to do is just try it for a week or two and see if you notice any improvement. Everybody's body is different. I know that when I stick to a leg strengthening regimen, I feel much better running than times when all I do is run. I may or may not be faster, but I feel better during and after.