Rope and harness for mountain hunt

[FishfinderAK]

Hi all-
I’ve done a few goat hunts, and after each one say, “dang! next time I’m taking a rope”. ....but never do.

So for you guys that do take rope, what kinda rope do you take? Obviously something with great strength to weight ratio.

How about a light weight harness?

Yes, no matter what I get I’ll learn hop to properly use it.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Are you climbing or rappelling? Or both? If you plan to climb (IE fall on the rope) at all you need a dynamic rope, they have some lighter duty 8mm ones these days, the ~10mm ones are more common size and there are some 11mm that are for heavy use. These types of ropes stretch to adsorb a fall and aren't the best rope if you are only rappelling, they certainly work for rappelling its just a little bouncier, esp. if you are ascending on it. They are more flexible and the sheath isn't as durable (its still durable its just not as durable) than static and also canyoneering ropes. They are typically in a maximum of 80m (60-70m are more common) and can be cut shorter if desired. You will want a "single rope" which is meant to be stand alone. Twin ropes, half ropes, tag lines, lines, etc. like that are for advanced users and not a stand alone rope.

Static ropes have less elongation, are a bit stiffer, tend to have a more durable sheath. Canyooneering ropes tend to be one more step up from there. These ropes can also be bought in longer lengths (300', 600', or custom ordered even longer).


I used to climb, haven't much in a few years other than trying to get the kids out top roping. I was just on a sheep hunt with cliffs that I had a 60m dynamic rope in the truck and almost needed to get to a sheep on a cliff band but missed it. In another instance I would have needed to scramble down a steep 400-600' slope that "could" be done without a rope but would be very bad if there was any slip and with the truck a few miles away in that case I left that hunt telling myself I was going to get a long or couple long static ropes to have back at the truck for that type of hunt. I am going to check out some 9.5mm static rope tomorrow which is on the lighter end for static (10mm or 11mm more common) but perfectly adequate at the same time, its just not going to be as durable for heavy users but I won't be heavily using this rope.

Regardless of selection learning to build a proper anchor, making sure the rope is protected from sharp edges (otherwise you can cut through it as you wiggle around on it below), and obviously learning how to use a rappel device properly are all critical to your plans. There are different types of rappel devices (some are combination belay devices), some of the more dedicated ones allow ways for increasing the friction on the rope to make rappelling easier if free hanging or a heavier load so you don't have to put some much effort into holding the rope back with your own hand (you still use your hand just lighter effort).


Harness: tons of typical rock climbing harnesses if you just want to get something. If you are trying to go lighter wight something like the black diamond alpine bod harness is just straps because its a mountaineering harness you ideally aren't falling on or hanging in routinely, its perfectly sturdy its just not padded so not preferred for rock climbing. This type can be put on over clothing more easily.

 

[THBZN]

pods8 laid out a ton of useful info.....regardless of what you get or use, ensure you are well versed in rappelling, anchor building, knots and understanding the safest techniques for lowering/hauling/rappelling, etc. Rappelling is one of the more risky parts of climbing, as it is so dependent on technique, integrity of the anchor, knots and gear.

Here are my two cents (I have climbed for about 20 years, rock/ice/alpine here in MT as well as Canada, the Tetons, etc. so am pretty familiar with what you may need. And who knows, you might just get the climbing bug too!)

A good all around "kit" to get you and/or your pack/goat/partner off something like a cliff, I would recommend the following:
Rap Line II -- this is not to be used for lead climbing, and I would say if you need to lead something on a goat hunt, use pro, etc., then it might be too steep to be safe. This line is small diameter (6mm) and works really well as a rap/lowering line. Word of caution -- thinner lines are lighter and pack away well, but good gloves when lowering or rapping off of something are necessary, as is the right belay/rappel device. The reason for such a thin line is I want to take this with me on the hunt, not have it back in the truck, so weight is important. Having 60-70m of 9 or 10mm static line in the rig would also be a good option.

For a belay device, this one works, but I would pair it up with TWO carabiners off the belay loop to increase friction. Also consider learning how to apply a Prusik to the rope as a backup.

Harnesses -- lots of options, but if you want superlight, here you go. Doesn't get much smaller or lighter. Will work to rappel off of something no problem. Yes, you read that right - under 3 ounces for the whole harness, size Large.

Anchors -- Get a few 12mm Dyneema slings in 30 and 48 inch lengths, as well as 2-3 locking carabiners. These can be used for LOWERING something or someone off of a stout tree, etc. by slinging the tree and running the rope through the carabiner. I won't go into active or passive rock protection...that is a whole other topic.
Here is a great article on the basics: https://rockandice.com/how-to-climb/how-to-rappel/

There is a place I ice climb frequently that is also goat country, and I have used large, strong trees as my rappel anchors. One climb in particular requires three rappels (each about 80-100 feet long) so we use TWO climbing ropes (each 60m in length) tied together. When done safely, it is a fast way to get off something, whereas down-climbing it would be foolish or just plain deadly. Also, by using the trees we don't leave behind any anchors as we pull the ropes after each rappel. A pretty common tactic in alpine climbing areas.

Let us know what you go with, or if you have any other questions! Good luck and be safe.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Just to re emphasize the rap line you need to know how to use, its not as durable and it won't have as much friction in a belay device so holding yourself back or slowing the speed of a free rappel (esp. if a pack is involved) is going to be a lot harder. Don't assume any practice you get with a 10-11mm rope is going to feel the same. BUT yes if are going to carry that along but wouldn't carry something thicker along it is definitely better than nothing if its needed, just definitely learn how to use it.

 

[Dos Perros]

There is a spot I got halfway into before I got scared and backed out. That moment itself was scary, but then I was considering trying to come back in the dark or in poor weather with meat on my back, and that was enough to throw in the towel and find a better way.

It's a spot where you have to climb a steep shale ridgeline, then hand climb up through some rimrock, then up some really loose shale stuff before you get to the peak. Getting to the base of the rimrock is doable, climbing up the rimrock is doable, but then getting gear up I would like some safety built in. There is a pinon tree right at the top of the rimrock. Was considering tying an anchor rope to that, and then to myself, and then hoisting gear (packs) up with help from below. Then the buddy would climb up and secure himself to the tree as well. Then one of us would go up with anchor line attached, get to where it was fairly safe, and attach another rope there. It's about 200 feet vertical up to the safe stuff. It's about a 40 to 45 degree slope. Then, come back down still on the line, and grab packs, and both scurry up.

All that to say, would you rather do the above, or walk a fairly easy 2.5 miles to get to that same spot?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Is this something you're going back and forth (leaving lines up for the duration) or a once in and once out (potentially with a meat load)? If once in/out and its fairly easy I'd just walk the 1hr each way vs. running ropes, etc...

 

[Cliff Gray]

These guys have given you exceptional advice. Go take some classes, get familiar/safe with things, etc...

Unfortunately, the potential situations you can get yourself into (rapping with heavy loads, anchors in uncharted territory, not knowing what's under you, setting things up in the dark or bad weather, etc...) are common while goat hunting and require a pretty darn advanced mountaineering skillset. Jumping directly to this stuff is like giving a 16 year old a Ferrari and telling him to be safe. The simple task of dropping a dead goat off a cragy rim would be consider highly technical by most folks that are experienced with ropes.

The other issue is actually having the gear you need, when you need it. You aren't going to drag around a big rack of nuts and cams, slings, biners, etc... while hunting. It's just not a reality.

I carry rap rings, a beal rando 8mm static rope, cordellete, micro traxion, a flash alpine harness and two autoblocks. I have found it is most practical to use this gear for getting the weight off of my back so it is easier to safely descend. Drop packs, meat, capes... but try to keep your life off the rap while learning. This alone can be a huge help. Guys die because they try to descend with too much weight... momentum is not a good thing.

One missing knot while rappeling and you can be deader than dead.

 

[Gunnersdad49]

You can do a lot with 1" tubular webbing. Here is an example of a Swiss Seat. This would allow you to create a harness if you need it, but the webbing can also be used to secure loads or set an anchor if you aren't rappelling with it. There are similar methods for a chest harness as well.

Learning how to tie and use Prussiks for ascending or a brake is also super handy.

 

[THBZN]

There is a spot I got halfway into before I got scared and backed out. That moment itself was scary, but then I was considering trying to come back in the dark or in poor weather with meat on my back, and that was enough to throw in the towel and find a better way.

It's a spot where you have to climb a steep shale ridgeline, then hand climb up through some rimrock, then up some really loose shale stuff before you get to the peak. Getting to the base of the rimrock is doable, climbing up the rimrock is doable, but then getting gear up I would like some safety built in. There is a pinon tree right at the top of the rimrock. Was considering tying an anchor rope to that, and then to myself, and then hoisting gear (packs) up with help from below. Then the buddy would climb up and secure himself to the tree as well. Then one of us would go up with anchor line attached, get to where it was fairly safe, and attach another rope there. It's about 200 feet vertical up to the safe stuff. It's about a 40 to 45 degree slope. Then, come back down still on the line, and grab packs, and both scurry up.

All that to say, would you rather do the above, or walk a fairly easy 2.5 miles to get to that same spot?

If I am reading it right, you are ascending with a rope solely to fix the rope so you can haul gear. Check...the one red flag I see is even though it is relatively easy terrain and not overly steep, I would try and only use the rope to haul gear UP.
A small pulley and a pair of Petzl Tiblocs will make life easier. I see it as a way to more or less safely leap frog up to anchor points, where you can then haul packs/etc. up, and repeat the process. If you are out in front "leading" up to the next anchor, keep in mind if you slip, you will take a massive leader fall, as I don't believe you intend on protecting as you go, with your partner belaying you up.....again, I may be mis-reading this, but I would lean towards only climbing up to anchor a rope, and then use it to haul packs....lots of moving parts on this scenario, which makes hunting so much fun, right? Also, your mention of shale, loose shale, etc. has the alpine climber in me cringing. That sounds like a rockfall nightmare for the partner below, especially if you are trailing a rope, or hauling a pack. Make sure everyone is at the same point, and anchored in....with a harness or webbing "Swami belt".

 

[Dos Perros]

There would be the hand climb up the rimrock, then anchor, then scurry up the shale 200 feet to the top, anchor again, then back down to get gear.

It’s just one of those places I’m scared that if you get to sliding you’re not stopping till you’re already dead.

I guess the hour walk is probably easier.

The other problem is there is no (public) water in there so you have to haul it all in.

Great place to hunt elk by yourself I guess.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I'd walk around unless going in/out daily then maybe string a fixed line to make numerous trips worth it. The 400-600' slope I mentioned above I wouldn't bother with if there was a hour detour to walk into that area (if there was a dead sheep to go get), but that was the only route in w/o actual cliffs.

 

[lkwoolsey]

Hi all-
I’ve done a few goat hunts, and after each one say, “dang! next time I’m taking a rope”. ....but never do.

So for you guys that do take rope, what kinda rope do you take? Obviously something with great strength to weight ratio.

How about a light weight harness?

Yes, no matter what I get I’ll learn hop to properly use it.

Thanks for any advice!

Lots of good advice. When I was doing a lot of climbing, I used a Black Diamond Alpine Bod harness for those ultralight, quick trips. For a rope, like everyone said, depends on if you're just gonna rappel. I'm assuming youd just be doing this, since learning to place anchors and lead climb would take a good bit more time to learn. In that case, an 8mm static rope would work fine. At work we use figure 8 devices, on my own climbs I use a black diamond atc- guide.
I used to guide climbs quite a bit, hit me up if you have any specific questions or anything.

 

[FishfinderAK]

Wow! Awesome advice! Thank you all.
Ya I’m not looking to do any serious lead climbing. Basically just want something for if the critter falls over a sketchy area, let’s say a 20’ ledge, I’d at least have a “safety” rope to repel down to it. And maybe help haul it out.

Sounds like a 8-9 mm static would be fine for that. Also pretty light too.

Wow those DCF harnesses look sweet!!

 

[Gunnersdad49]

Check out animatedknots.com tons of info there to learn from for free. Easy way to put information into learn-able format if you read or hear about specific knots or hitches.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

That 3oz harness is something else WOW!!! I might order one of those.

 

[ColeyG]

I thought my BD Couloir harness was a pretty slick ultralight rig. At 7.5oz, I can now see that it is an unwieldy, needlessly heavy piece of crap and I need to upgrade ASAP. Thanks a lot.

 

[THBZN]

I thought my BD Couloir harness was a pretty slick ultralight rig. At 7.5oz, I can now see that it is an unwieldy, needlessly heavy piece of crap and I need to upgrade ASAP. Thanks a lot.

Hang on to that Couloir harness! It's solid. And heavier than my BD Technician harness....but the new DCF Skimo harnesses out today are silly light.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

While I haven’t carried rope and harness for goat hunts, for the past few years I have been carrying crampons and an ice axe. I think I’ll buy that 3oz harness and some light rope. I’ve done a lot of mountaineering so it’s nothing new for me.

 

[squirrel]

The single most important lesson of goat hunting, knowing what not to attempt, all else is secondary.

 

[cabuck]

Squirrel has a good point. Goats can be in spots that are not accessible or may damage the animal when he falls.

Ropes and harness's are for climbers, I prefer to hunt. I also like to come home in one piece.
Montana DIY 2012