Rokslide Culture Question

[solarshooter]

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In general I would say people are much more rude on the internet, both because of the anonymity aspect but also because text does not convey tone or facial expression well. We're all guilty of inadvertently sounding like assholes on here from time to time. That being said, in the example you quoted, the reply you got was not even remotely assholish. On the contrary, your post displayed a deep level of ignorance paired with bravado and dose of rudeness you may not have been aware of. In particular:

I have run the numbers several times

Several times is a laughably small number. To get on the level of the real freak autists (poking fun at myself first and foremost) around here, you need to code your own ballistic solvers and spend weeks debating definitions of standard deviation and the null hypothesis. Several times? I think I've run trajectories for every bullet Berger makes.

I am comfortable taking long shots when the wind is right.

How do you know the wind is "right"? What is "right"?

I feel like it is in my wheelhouse.

You shouldn't "feel" anything. What is your hit rate on a vitals sized target at 1000yds in broken terrain and from suboptimal positions with hunting weight rifles?

I feel like very high bc bullets is a huge benefit.

Again, that "feel" word creeping in here. What is "high" bc? I "feel" like a 410gr .375 bullet has a high bc that would put your 147 ELDM to shame...

Also, you sound like a salesman for hammer bullets.

Rude.

I liked @mxgsfmdpx post instead of writing this response initially. I can't believe you'd start this thread, but since you did...

 

[The Harbor Master]

I'm just another random guy on this forum so my opinion shouldn't matter much to you, but I disagree entirely. I certainly see advice/commentary/opinions on the benefits of good bullets in smaller calibers. But I don't recall ever seeing anything akin to "if you don't shoot a 6mm then you shouldn't hunt at all."

When I posted about having trouble shooting my 7RM SuperLite and being unhappy with the accuracy, I wasn't told I shouldn't use it or shouldn't hunt with it. I didnt take any responses personally. I received a lot of helpful info from people, including @mxgsfmdpx and @Formidilosus some of which regarded shooting lightweight magnums with a lot of recoil. And guess what? They were correct. The rifle shot fine, I did not.

I didn't read any emotion into what they were saying, and they added data to help support their opinions. Tone is hard to read in forums and text, and it's easy to assume someone is being a big ol' meanie, if you choose to read it that way. I don't read posts from these guys and assume they are the gospel/end all be all when it comes to rifles, bullet construction, or anything else. I do, however, recognize that they have WAY more experience and knowledge than me, which they share freely for anyone else to absorb, test, verify, confirm, disagree with, or whatever independently.

I went from trying to figure out why I'm shooting 2MOA 3 round groups with a lightweight magnum, to 1MOA 10 round groups with the same rifle, while planning to move out of the magnum game when I can afford to. Mostly based on the info these guys post. You can definitely think they're wrong. But this place is about discussion, debate, and details... I really don't detect any of the hate you're describing.

YMMV

 

[Billy Goat]

I think this is the main crux of the matter. Some people view having their assumptions/beliefs challenged as being "attacked". Makes productive, rational conversations difficult.

That extends a whole lot further than just this Forum.

 

[bnewt3]

That extends a whole lot further than just this Forum.

Cant stand the "news" these days

Headline will be "So and So SLAMS Whatshisnuts over position on whogivesadamn topic"

the "SLAM" will be "I dont think Whatshisnuts' idea is the best way to go about this"

really? thats "SLAMMING" someone?

 

[hibernation]

But this place is about discussion, debate, and details... I really don't detect any of the hate you're describing.

Details is why I come here. When I talk to hunters in-person, getting details can be like pulling teeth. I don't want to hear that X broadhead sucks, I want to hear what you've personally experienced with it. How did it perform on what exact shot placement, how long was the animal on its feet, how was the blood trail. Half-ass stories from your cousin's neighbor, or a single instance of something weird happening, it's just not that useful.

There's so much "widely accepted" nonsense around the hunting community (did you know that gut shot deer will always go to water?), I really value hearing about firsthand experiences from real-world events. Hit rates, equipment failure, terminal performance, etc. Some people take it personally when you ask for first-hand experiences instead of opinions.

 

[RockAndSage]

I want to start out by saying I really appreciate this forum - without it I never would have understood the importance of a drop tested scope and would still have Leupold VX6HDs on all my rifles instead of the nightforces they currently wear. Also was drawn to the 223 thread and am totally on board with prioritizing bullet construction/performance over all else.

Having said that, what is up with constantly being attacked if you choose to shoot something other than a .22 or .243 caliber cartridge?

Or being told you don’t shoot enough or shouldn’t be hunting if you don’t hunt with a small caliber or want to buy a gunwerks rifle.

@mxgsfmdpx is one of the worst, but there are others who are just as bad. It reminds me of the long range hunting website and their obsession with sherman cartridges and hammer bullets.

I love my 223 and 6cm and shoot them a lot. Its crazy to me that someone who likes to take their 280 AI or 6.5 prc elk hunting because they appreciate the high bc bullets and their performance with wind is going to get ridiculed and told they don’t shoot enough and shouldn’t be hunting.

If an eldm in a 223 or 22 CM is awesome, isn’t an eldm in a 6.5 PRC just more of a good thing?

Anyway, its been interesting moving from a spectator to a participant and I am probably going to go back to spectating and hopefully find some good deals in the classifieds

I think this could be one the best hunting forum on the internet if a handful of people could tone it down. Thanks again for all those who have made positive contributions and comments. Not looking to stir things up, just wanted to share a humble observation from a nobody on the internet

Honestly man, I'd give it some time. This place is a goldmine of good info, and I've also seen @mxgsfmdpx go out of his way to be helpful to people. I've seen and been part of a couple of the convos you're referencing here, and to be honest it looks like the two of you just clicked up wrong at the wrong moment. Different day, slightly different words, probably wouldn't have had the same outcome. I mean that.

I've gotten into a couple of tussles here myself, and find that it's generally because either the other person was probably having a bad internet day, or I was the one who dished out a few too emphatic declaratives, and not enough question marks. With the occasional, genuine misunderstandings of informed people talking past each other with slightly different meanings or understandings of context.

Someone above made points about internet anonymity, gun autism, etc - all that's in effect too, and I've been guilty of it myself on occasion. Just give it some time.

 

[KHntr]

. In the east, most people are shooting 100-200yds max, so no one is worried about watching their impacts or even spending a ton of time practicing.

I also don't see the point of shooting something smaller like a 223, if I'm getting so little recoil with a 6.5.
Is there really a reason to shoot a 223 if:
You already have a 270 or other
You're only shooting a couple of hundred yards. (watching impacts don't matter)
You're only going to practice a couple of times a year(ammo cost doesn't matter)

Personally, in my opinion, watching impacts can have a big effect on game recovery, regardless of distance of the shot.
Seeing a bullet land in the paunch or on a fringe can lead to a rapid followup shot that might not have otherwise been taken if a guy thought he landed a good one.

 

[SloppyJ]

I posted a story about about taking my first elk with a 300prc the other day. That's after me going through the S2H class. It was only love from everyone that said anything. There's a lot of recommendations for smaller calibers on here but I've yet to see a hateful exchange like you're claiming. The recommendations are from people who have started to make the switch or are fully engrained in it and want to share the benefits.

You don't have to read those threads if you don't like them. You don't have to even be on the forum for that matter. You're voluntarily reading these things and then making threads about how upset you are? Sounds pretty entitled to me man.

 

[Schmo]

Agreed

Post will be "getting a new rifle, 270 or 280AI?"

and replies will be:
7PRC
300WSM
6.5CM
etc
etc
People answer a question that wasnt asked.

Sure. But I think a lot of the suggestions that are made are from people with field experience, who realize that another option may work better, and not have been considered.

 

[TheGDog]

Usually folks like this are much better at typing out what I’m trying to express. I can come across on the internet as “short” and “harsh” for sure.

Ugh.. THAT isht.. is EXHAUSTING!! It's like they've never encountered someone grounded in methodical logic and reason before or something.

I find this A LOT on social media. Like a person will make a claim.. and people like me, engineer type.. we'll look at that statement they made and immediately start debugging it... trying to shoot holes in the logic given. Because to US.. as engineers, the goal is different.. it's to assess and figure what is the Truth. What stands up to reason the best.

What I've noticed is... the moment you call out a flaw in the logic of their post... all the freakin' "normies" out there.. immediately take it as a personal attack on THEM... rather than you dissecting the ASSERTION they're making.

And of course, from that INSTANT.. forward.. such type of person (cough, cough TDS'er, cough) .. due to cognitive bias... basically just spirals into personal allegations against you... ultimately ending in them "rage quitting" so to speak.

To me anyway... it's thee most bizarre isht ever!

THAT.. is the kinda person that makes the Dems just freaking begin salivating! Because of how their side has become soo adept at emotional manipulation of the "lesser-educated" masses.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I've gotten into a couple of tussles here myself, and find that it's generally because either the other person was probably having a bad internet day.

I have a bad internet day every day. I suck at the internet and don’t use any social media so a lot of the time I come across as an ass or a douche, or ask dumb questions when I don’t fully read the context etc.

I think if you’d ask the dozens of Rokslide members I’ve met in real life, shot with, etc. maybe only a couple would still think I’m an ass

My intent a lot of the time here is to get people to go out and try things for themselves. You learn a whole heck of lot more about shooting and killing by shooting and killing. Staring at apps on phone screens all day is bad for the soul, even if they are ballistics apps

How someone takes my responses isn’t on me. Could I be “nicer” or less “douchey” about it sometimes? Yep.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

You're wrong about who the worst poster on RS is...

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Ugh.. THAT isht.. is EXHAUSTING!! It's like they've never encountered someone grounded in methodical logic and reason before or something.

I find this A LOT on social media. Like a person will make a claim.. and people like me, engineer type.. we'll look at that statement they made and immediately start debugging it... trying to shoot holes in the logic given. Because to US.. as engineers, the goal is different.. it's to assess and figure what is the Truth. What stands up to reason the best.

What I've noticed is... the moment you call out a flaw in the logic of their post... all the freakin' "normies" out there.. immediately take it as a personal attack on THEM... rather than you dissecting the ASSERTION they're making.

And of course, from that INSTANT.. forward.. such type of person (cough, cough TDS'er, cough) .. due to cognitive bias... basically just spirals into personal allegations against you... ultimately ending in them "rage quitting" so to speak.

To me anyway... it's thee most bizarre isht ever!

THAT.. is the kinda person that makes the Dems just freaking begin salivating! Because of how their side has become soo adept at emotional manipulation of the "lesser-educated" masses.

Engineers are so annoying...Bunch of guys with bachelors degrees thinking they are smarter than everybody else.

 

[bnewt3]

Sure. But I think a lot of the suggestions that are made are from people with field experience, who realize that another option may work better, and not have been considered.

Certainly possible.

But in the vast majority of cases, most centerfire rifle cartridges can get the job done. "Better" can be so subjective.

I think also too many of us are in "let me school someone" mode. Rarely do we ask questions to better understand the situation, or ask how they arrived at those options. Just straight to "this is better"

 

[RockAndSage]

and people like me, engineer type.. we'll look at that statement they made and immediately start debugging it... trying to shoot holes in the logic given. Because to US.. as engineers, the goal is different.. it's to assess and figure what is the Truth.

This makes a lot of sense, and explains a lot of things - add in limited time, or being annoyed/exhausted at having to repeat the same $h*t all the time to people who don't seem to want to listen, and responses could get really short, really factual, in a hurry.

It's also interesting that at some point, over 80% of all the known leadership in terrorist organizations around the world were engineers. Because... The Truth. Black and white thinking. There's a right way and a wrong way, and everything wrong is dumb and wrong, and irresponsible...or immoral...etc.

 

[bnewt3]

This makes a lot of sense, and explains a lot of things - add in limited time, or being annoyed/exhausted at having to repeat the same $h*t all the time to people who don't seem to want to listen, and responses could get really short, really factual, in a hurry.

It's also interesting that at some point, over 80% of all the known leadership in terrorist organizations around the world were engineers. Because... The Truth. Black and white thinking. There's a right way and a wrong way, and everything wrong is dumb and wrong, and irresponsible...or immoral...etc.

The engineer mind in me agrees, but theres also a part that says for most of the animals hunted at the ranges most hunters should shoot......throw a dart blindfolded and youll hit something that will absolutely work.

I feel like knife steel is this x10000000000

Oh the new FG53gx1046&%000000000! steel just came out! Im throwing everything else away. SMH

 

[Schmo]

@Rock’N Tacos,
Maybe I missed it, but I don’t see anywhere where you were attacked. I see where there was pushback against what you were stating, but no attacks. I say this nicely: I think maybe you should step back, and re-evaluate what you thought was an attack. I’ve never met @mxgsfmdpx in person, but he’s one of the solid, main contributors on this forum. He’s probably in the top 10 people on this forum that shoot thousands of rounds a year from hunting rifles, in hunting conditions. To myself, and others, I’ve seen him volunteer his own gear for people to use if they’re in a tight spot. He even offered up a couple quads for a guy to borrow.

Sometimes the written word doesn’t come across as it’s meant. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum. Stick around, and you’ll see who the top contributors are, and just how much experience and practice they have.

 

[MuleyFever]

I think if you’d ask the dozens of Rokslide members I’ve met in real life, shot with, etc. maybe only a couple would still think I’m an ass

 

[Marbles]

Ugh.. THAT isht.. is EXHAUSTING!! It's like they've never encountered someone grounded in methodical logic and reason before or something.

I find this A LOT on social media. Like a person will make a claim.. and people like me, engineer type.. we'll look at that statement they made and immediately start debugging it... trying to shoot holes in the logic given. Because to US.. as engineers, the goal is different.. it's to assess and figure what is the Truth. What stands up to reason the best.

What I've noticed is... the moment you call out a flaw in the logic of their post... all the freakin' "normies" out there.. immediately take it as a personal attack on THEM... rather than you dissecting the ASSERTION they're making.

And of course, from that INSTANT.. forward.. such type of person (cough, cough TDS'er, cough) .. due to cognitive bias... basically just spirals into personal allegations against you... ultimately ending in them "rage quitting" so to speak.

To me anyway... it's thee most bizarre isht ever!

THAT.. is the kinda person that makes the Dems just freaking begin salivating! Because of how their side has become soo adept at emotional manipulation of the "lesser-educated" masses.

You would be better off leaving politics and name calling out ot it. Using the term "TDS'er" is you demonstrating that you are no different than the "normies" on positions you hold dear. Rather than rational engagement, you resort to slandering the other side. That is human, and certainly not unique to you; but it cuts the legs out from under your claim of being somehow different.

It is very interesting how the human brain sections behaviors off based on context. With training, in certain contexts, people can be exceptionally rational; but removed from the trained context, the typical pseudorational behaviors return. Part of that is because the training isn't changing our nature, rather it is laying a different behavior pattern over the top of it.

 

[bnewt3]

Yes, please leave politics somewhere else. Lets have at least one place without it.