Rokslide and Kuiu

[Aron Snyder]

Kuiu decided to leave for several reasons:

1) Jason did not like that I am an owner of Rokslide, but work with other companies as well

2) We (Ryan, myself or Robby) told a few people that Jason did not want the new pack rolled off a cliff as it was not made to take that type of abuse. When it got back to Jason that we were telling people he said that, he decided to pull the plug on Rokslide.

3) When I talked about the Kuiu sleeping bags on the forums, I said something like "it's basically a Marmot plasma with a couple extra inches at the chest and treated down". I guess the word basically wasn't the right thing to say, because that was a huge point of contention.

4) A few threads on Rokslide turned into Kuiu bash sessions and those got blamed on me and my affiliation with the other companies I work with.

There's several other small issues that Kuiu had as well, but those were the big ones.

Ryan and I spent a few days reading my posts and confirming that I've recommended MANY products from other companies and have stayed clear of the majority of Kuiu threads to keep from causing drama.

I really don't want to turn this into a shit show! Kuiu is gone and they've got their reasons for leaving.

Lets move on with this.

 

[JustOneMoreShot]

Thanks for this site and the gear reviews and unbiased information. That is one of the reasons I am here.
Sad to hear of a top company asking you to censure or limit the testing of their gear on a review. My opinion is that it is your site and you can run it the way you want. I believe that Roksliders are their target demographic so it seems really strange that they would want to limit involvement on this site.
RS is an awesome and friendly site and I am happy to see that they are keeping the air clear and letting everyone know they shoot straight.

 

[Mark]

Sounds to me like this is about a lot more than just a pack test. The impression I got from Ryan's post is the proposed pack test was what ended the business relationship, but that there was a lot more going on in the background.

Rokslide will do just fine, and so will Kuiu. Just a bump in the road for both, and an unfortunate turn of events.

 

[tipsntails7]

Edited

 

[jm1607]

Can someone please throw a fu***** KUIU pack off a cliff already!?!

 

[jm1607]

But seriously, isn't that real little kiddish? Like: "I heard you were doing a test of all these different companies packs and, well, uh, don't do mine and I quit"

It's like telling Motor Trend magazine to please not include your companies car in any tests or comparisons because we already know it will not stand up to the others and we don't want to look stupid.. Our excuse will be that you're biased even though only one of your cars is included..

 

[Buckman]

I guess I can understand both points of view. But in the end I am glad to be a Rokslider.

 

[2rocky]

Man, If I had a Rokslide Sweatshirt to wear into the retail outlet in Dixon when I go to the RMEF dinner nearby wouldn't that be SWEET?

;-D

 

[squeekieslayer]

They crash test all vehicles to test their safety... does that mean that we are supposed to take them and play bumper cars? It is just a worst-case scenario type of test. Nothing to pout about.

Joe

 

[mfolch]

I took up hunting a few years ago when I realized I was missing out on something I had always dreamed of doing and I am grateful to rokslide for all of the excellent information and reviews that have made it possible for me to do so - esp since I live in a city and state in which basically no one backpack hunts and I've had to figure all of this out on my own. That said, it might be worthwhile to look at this from kuiu's perspective.

1. Conflict of interest is a serious concern. Why would anyone trust someone who works for or with a competitor, especially when that person has been critical of your products? Biases can creep in despite our best intentions. I'm not saying that rokslide is biased, but I can see why kuiu might feel suspicious.
2. Combine that with a perception that a conflicted party is maligning your company's product or spreading rumors and that's also a serious concern.
3. Seems a bit quibbling and blown out of proportion.
4. It's got to suck to have your products bashed on a forum owned and operated by people who work for or with your competitors and then be asked to sponsor that forum.

I don't mean to suggest that rokslide has done anything wrong or is unfair. It sounds to me like kuiu is being controlling. But it also seems to me that it's very easy for kuiu to build a narrative out of #1 and then interpret every criticism as proof of that narrative and as a sign that they're being misrepresented by a competitor.

For what it's worth, I hope someone on this site does throw the new kuiu pack down a mountainside and that it holds up pretty well despite the abuse. Better products come out of an open and critical forum.

 

[Colbyqueso]

If Kuiu put out a superior product. I do not see why they would be worried about a review of throwing anything off a cliff. Throwing stuff off cliffs is fun. And when looking for a pack. The cliff test is not something people decide on. Hey, have you seen the pack cliff test where they throw a bunch of packs off a cliff. Ya, I'm getting the one that didn't fail. This is not how people buy their gear. They moved their products to China to be made. This should tell you something. I have Attack pants before and after the move. Same size pants. They do not fit the same.

 

[Manosteel]

Good on Rokslide for standing tall and not bending. I own a business and reputation is everything... I recently bought some Kuiu clothing; it fits my body great and it will probably work out in the field this season. However, they will not get anymore of my $$$$, even if I like their clothing, there are a lot of other companies that make great stuff now... thankfully. If they are not upfront about their gear, (packs, tents, etc..) then what else are they not telling us? Once you skimp in one area it’s a slippery slop and usually fast.

As for arron, the guy is as stand up as they come. He gives first rate customer service and tells it like it is on gear. I'm surprised his sponsors and companies aren't mad at him for not pushing their stuff and their stuff only! I have a good buddy who is a prostaffer for numerous companies and all he dose is push their products whether he believes in them or not or even uses them for that matter.

And throwing a pack off a cliff is a real world test... it’s a test of durability, very important when packing a ram off a mountain or moose/elk for 10 miles in think nasty stuff. When packs are over 120lbs you will be spending time on your a$$ and your pack will take a beating. I've done all three last season and more than once b/c buddies needed help. My pack took a beating and that was just from my normal use, no cliff jumps.

 

[orionsbrother]

Meh...

It's unfortunate because I believe that it's short sighted. I suspect that KUIU has a consultant who strongly recommended that they "actively manage and control their brand in social media" or some other words to that effect. It's the kind of thinking that gets companies to plant cheerleaders on forums and sometimes post negative threads about competitors. In my opinion, those activities are a mistake in the long run.

I can understand why a company would have trepidations about their product being tossed off of a cliff. There are a lot of variables in that experiment, but if you're tossing some packs off the edge, you gotta toss 'em all. Fair is fair.

This site has a good sized chunk of their target market. I think KUIU will recognize that they derive more benefit from participating than by exiting stage left. I think it's in their best interest to return as a sponsor and eventually will. Sometimes it sucks hearing your customers bitch, but you still gotta listen and maybe alter your path.

For Rokslide, the situation still sucks because any reduction in revenue stream, however incremental, sucks. But the resolute adherence to your values and integrity is definitely the path to take. Maintain that course.

And one more thing from the cheap seats...you posted the video of the Ultra pack from the show, load one up and throw it off the cliff.

 

[SJ-AK]

When did throwing a pack off a cliff become the be all end all of scientific pack tests as some posts seem to insinuate? What if the SG or Kifaru hit a rock in just the right spot and sustained damage? Would any of us not bought a SG or Kifaru? Would we all be bashing that pack as junk?

I haven't watched the video since it was originally posted, but I seem to recall the tester saying the cliff test was not hard science. It was entertaining though.


As to the original thread, I think its a shame they parted ways but it does not change my opinion about either entity. I will continue to support both until something else convinces me otherwise.

 

[dotman]

I think we all should donate a dollar to rokslide, buy a Kuiu with the donations and toss it off a cliff. If it survives do a give away to only those that donated.

 

[flatlander51]

Exactly why this is the only forum/ site I follow. I like the honest opinions that people give in a respectable fashion. Glad you guys stand behind your word. Hard to find people like that now days. Thanks for all you guys.

 

[Aron Snyder]

When did throwing a pack off a cliff become the be all end all of scientific pack tests as some posts seem to insinuate? What if the SG or Kifaru hit a rock in just the right spot and sustained damage? Would any of us not bought a SG or Kifaru? Would we all be bashing that pack as junk?

I haven't watched the video since it was originally posted, but I seem to recall the tester saying the cliff test was not hard science. It was entertaining though.


As to the original thread, I think its a shame they parted ways but it does not change my opinion about either entity. I will continue to support both until something else convinces me otherwise.

The Kifaru did.... it ripped a hole in the lid.

 

[DIY]

I think we all should donate a dollar to rokslide, buy a Kuiu with the donations and toss it off a cliff. If it survives do a give away to only those that donated.

Il donate 5

 

[Shrek]

I think we all should donate a dollar to rokslide, buy a Kuiu with the donations and toss it off a cliff. If it survives do a give away to only those that donated.

I'm in !

 

[boom]

Well damn.

Us kids hate it when mommy and daddy fight.
. Good luck to everybody.