Rokslide and Kuiu

[Buster]

Mark I would agree that people do like to bash without first hand knowledge. It also goes the other way and people will promote for various reasons without any knowledge. That is why giving reasons for people's opinions is critical for reviews.

Agreed. I seem to recall a thread recently (started by Aron), that stressed the importance of guys posting on gear that they have legitimate experience and real world time using.

Aron has earned my respect on his opinion, as I've seen numerous posts that would make a newcomer think he was representing companies other than kifaru or kryptek.

Even though kuiu has had several shortfalls as of late, I hope that roksliders continue to review their products objectively. Whether they support their company for other reasons is a personal choice.

 

[Matt Cashell]

I think Matt kept the Bt1 and uses it these days but I'm not sure. Matt...?

Sorry can't post right now...

 

[ckleeves]

Sponsoring a site should be to advertise, it should not be to have control over the conversations that take place. That includes positive and negative feedback that gets posted.

I agree 100% if it's real feedback. The problem I saw was people who had never used, held, or even seen a certain product from Kuiu making comments on every thread that mentioned anything Kuiu.

I like Kuiu clothing, most of the pieces I have from them have been fantastic. I really have no interest in their packs, tents, or sleeping bags but wish them the best of luck in these products. I don't feel the need to throw in my .02 on something I have never used and I'm not quite sure why some people do?

If it's real feedback they want moderated then shame on Kuiu. If it's half truths being posted by some guy who's jealous or has some odd bone to pick over some petty thing ( example, item not in stock one week before season) then shame on that person.

 

[shaun]

 

[littlebuf]

As a business owner that has sponsored quite a few of these types of forums in the past , I would not support a site that allowed open bashing of forum sponsors product . I believe there is a fine line between honest reviews and concerns and straight up bad mouthing from people that arent even using said product .
I would have pulled the plug as well probably wouldnt have waited as long as Kuiu did . I believe this a a great site and I do enjoy reading the stories but there are quite a few people here that chime in on anything Kuiu to throw stones !

Mark

as a business owner and website sponsor (of whatever web site) i would think you would see the folly in kuiu's approach to rokslide. i personally can not think of a more prime example of a business cutting off there nose to spite there face. if there was ever a more concentrated group of the exact market they claim to focus i haven't seen it. and going by the very fast growth in a relative short time i would want to be established and in good graces with the forum members of a site like this that will likely one day be as big as all the other "big" hunting sites (weather i like it or not) as o bashing there gear with out trying it i have to agree, thats just throwing stones and piling on. i personally bash the way they do business, treat here customer base and seem to be comfortable with using customers hard earned money for testing and product development they should have vetted them selves before toting there gear as the best of the best. thats why they have never and will never see a dime of mine. there reaction to rokslides wanting to test there new best pack ever (thought they had one of those last time around?) just affirms mine and looks like many others feeling on the matter. not that i was going to drop my kifaru any way...

 

[littlebuf]

Sponsoring a site should be to advertise, it should not be to have control over the conversations that take place. That includes positive and negative feedback that gets posted.

I agree 100% if it's real feedback. The problem I saw was people who had never used, held, or even seen a certain product from Kuiu making comments on every thread that mentioned anything Kuiu.

I like Kuiu clothing, most of the pieces I have from them have been fantastic. I really have no interest in their packs, tents, or sleeping bags but wish them the best of luck in these products. I don't feel the need to throw in my .02 on something I have never used and I'm not quite sure why some people do?

If it's real feedback they want moderated then shame on Kuiu. If it's half truths being posted by some guy who's jealous or has some odd bone to pick over some petty thing ( example, item not in stock one week before season) then shame on that person.

how about them deleting a guys add on there websites classifieds and sending him a message saying they want people to buy new packs so were not going to let you advertise your used one on here? that's a pretty shitty way to treat a guy who dropped a few bills on one of your packs. there reaction to rokslide about moderating negative posts and not reviewing any negative aspect of there gear didn't surprise me.

 

[hodgeman]

I would throw my MR Longbow off of a cliff, but I'd probably break the cliff

That's laugh out loud funny... heck, I'm still hucking around Luke's old MR 6500. It's a bloodstained, battered wreck that's hauled a ton (probably literal) of critters and crap off mountains and it's still solid!

I bought into the Kuiu line pretty heavy when it was introduced...most of it just didn't make it. That 1st Gen Icon pack was a one hunt wonder.

 

[OR Archer]

I'd just like to commend Rokslide for showing great integrity. That's the backbone of this site.

 

[idahoelkhunter]

as a business owner and website sponsor (of whatever web site) i would think you would see the folly in kuiu's approach to rokslide. i personally can not think of a more prime example of a business cutting off there nose to spite there face. if there was ever a more concentrated group of the exact market they claim to focus i haven't seen it. and going by the very fast growth in a relative short time i would want to be established and in good graces with the forum members of a site like this that will likely one day be as big as all the other "big" hunting sites (weather i like it or not) as o bashing there gear with out trying it i have to agree, thats just throwing stones and piling on. i personally bash the way they do business, treat here customer base and seem to be comfortable with using customers hard earned money for testing and product development they should have vetted them selves before toting there gear as the best of the best. thats why they have never and will never see a dime of mine. there reaction to rokslides wanting to test there new best pack ever (thought they had one of those last time around?) just affirms mine and looks like many others feeling on the matter. not that i was going to drop my kifaru any way...

Littlebuf,

I cant speak to any of Kuiu's actions. I do believe that this is exactly the target group that Kuiu is wanting to market thier products too ! And I do believe that there needs to be fair and un-biased as possible reviews of products with that being said I dont believe that Kuiu pulled the plug because of the pack review which has been blown so far out of porportion here so far its comical . To me the issues are the lack of moderation whenever someone posts something Kuiu there are people that dont use the product and maybe never even seen said product throwing stones and it being allowed on the site . Aron summed things up pretty well when he stated the facts on the seperation . Well done on his part ! This is a great site with a bunch of gear hounds and hardcore hunters that love to share our passions . I take most of the opinions on gear with a grain of salt unless I personally know how the person using it actually uses it . I have limited dealings with Kuiu as far as issues with products that arent performing as advertised but I believe that they will stand behind products that they have sold from my experience , Until they prove otherwise I cant bad mouth the customer service . I cant speak to the pack test as we are not privy to all the conversations about the pack testing . I dont believe the ultra is in the same class of packs as the other two as someone stated above to me its like comparing a Hummer to Sprint Car claiming that because they have 4 wheels and a motor that they should perform similar . It sucks for all parties involved when something like this takes place .

Mark

 

[orionsbrother]

Idahoelkhunter - "To me the issues are a lack of moderation whenever someone posts something Kuiu there are people who don't use the product and maybe never even seen said product throwing stones and it being allowed on the site."

While some of the bashing that occurs seems to be more rooted in a sense of personal betrayal than material workmanship, I would be more disturbed by selective moderation that was beneficial to sponsors.

Moderation should be wielded sparingly in my opinion. The sense that conversations are controlled, only allowed to move in certain directions would be damaging. Where to draw the line has got to be a tough judgement call.

I don't put much stock in any company-run forum except for product specific technical advice.

 

[Jager]

Maybe the bashing has to do with how each company handles themselves and what they say to the public and less to do with me and Rokslide.

Spot on.

idahoelkhunter I had a senior, yet childish employee from Kuiu, absolutely give me both barrels on this very forum, simply because I complained about not being able to access their store and buy THEIR products, go figure hey. I still have the disgusting reply saved, I get a laugh out of it when reading through it.

I love the clothing I have, but will not buy anymore after experiencing their negativity. For the record, I bought a pack, checked it out, and it went back.

Sure, they love us to buy their products, but DO NOT post a negative opinion regarding the company or products, they don't take kindly to it.

I even had a senior member of their management actually whinge to me about people posting negative things on the net.

The members here are RS's customers, and with such a strong following, and bound only to get stronger with the no nonsense approach shown here, it simply gives the team weight when approaching other potential sponsors.

 

[handwerk]

Now that this post has surfaced on the kuiu site it will be interesting to see if Jason responds as clearly as Aron has.

 

[idahoelkhunter]

I can understand your point, but how is it that Kenton from First Lite, Petra from Hilleberg, Kurt from Stone Glacier and many others are happy with what I do/say on Rosklide? All of the companies and owners I listed have no issue with me or Rokslide and have thanked me for sending them business.

Maybe the bashing has to do with how each company handles themselves and what they say to the public and less to do with me and Rokslide.

Jason recently said on a video that Kuiu IS THE ONLY COMPANY that doesn't cut corners in the outdoor industry. That pretty much spits in the face of men like Dana Gleason (owner of Mystery Ranch), Patrick Smith (owner of Kifaru) and Bo Hilleberg (owner of Hilleberg). Those three men helped build the house that Jason is now playing in and a little respect should be shown at the very least. This is nothing to do with Rokslide, but when you make statements like that to the public, a little "blowback" isn't out of the question.

Along those same lines, Kenton from First Lite is one of the nicest guys you'll ever know in the industry and they make some amazing products. I would guess that First Lite supporters would probably bash Kuiu as well, considering that Kenton makes top notch gear and Kuiu is telling everyone that FL cuts corners.

I can't speak for Kurt with Stone Glacier on this, but I would tell anyone that he's one of the most humble guys anyone could know and takes great pride in his company. So I doubt his followers were real happy with someone saying he cuts corners.

So does any of this mean that Kuiu makes bad clothing? Hell no, but it could explain why they started getting bashed (we do have a ton of Mystery Ranch, Kifaru, First Lite, Stone Glacier and Hilleberg supporters on Rokslide)

I should probably get of this thread and get to work.....Patrick and I gotta figure out what corners we can cut with our new designs.

Aron,

I thought I said it above but I must have deleted it cause I didnt wanna ramble on . I dont believe that you personally were the issue. You seem like a good dude and I believe your a straight shooter and tell it like it is and send a ton of business to all the companies above. I was just stating what I have seen. I have my share of gear from all the above as well, some of my purchases were influenced by yourself . With that being said I dont think anyone will survive or get by very far cutting corners in this industry. I am not trying to defend Jason or Kuiu's actions . I am sure some of the bashing might have been provoked but I havent seen that side of the company yet. I run a company and no matter how hard you try you cant make everyone happy. and also I would say that some people maybe my self included sometimes say things that are miss understood.

Mark

 

[Aron Snyder]

Makes sense....I dig what you're shoveling now!

 

[Highcountry_Hellrazor]

It does make me laugh how defensive people get over the pants/jacket they wear.

 

[JoshTX]

It does make me laugh how defensive people get over the pants/jacket they wear.

Agreed.

It's certainly not limited to this thread or this forum but it is funny how grown men/women can get their panties in a wad over who bought what sleeping bag or parka or whatever. It's stuff. Fun stuff... but..still..stuff.

 

[tipsntails7]

Now that this post has surfaced on the kuiu site it will be interesting to see if Jason responds as clearly as Aron has.

Not a chance

 

[tipsntails7]

I can understand your point, but how is it that Kenton from First Lite, Petra from Hilleberg, Kurt from Stone Glacier and many others are happy with what I do/say on Rosklide? All of the companies and owners I listed have no issue with me or Rokslide and have thanked me for sending them business.

Maybe the bashing has to do with how each company handles themselves and what they say to the public and less to do with me and Rokslide.

Jason recently said on a video that Kuiu IS THE ONLY COMPANY that doesn't cut corners in the outdoor industry. That pretty much spits in the face of men like Dana Gleason (owner of Mystery Ranch), Patrick Smith (owner of Kifaru) and Bo Hilleberg (owner of Hilleberg). Those three men helped build the house that Jason is now playing in and a little respect should be shown at the very least. This is nothing to do with Rokslide, but when you make statements like that to the public, a little "blowback" isn't out of the question.

Along those same lines, Kenton from First Lite is one of the nicest guys you'll ever know in the industry and they make some amazing products. I would guess that First Lite supporters would probably bash Kuiu as well, considering that Kenton makes top notch gear and Kuiu is telling everyone that FL cuts corners.

I can't speak for Kurt with Stone Glacier on this, but I would tell anyone that he's one of the most humble guys anyone could know and takes great pride in his company. So I doubt his followers were real happy with someone saying he cuts corners.

So does any of this mean that Kuiu makes bad clothing? Hell no, but it could explain why they started getting bashed (we do have a ton of Mystery Ranch, Kifaru, First Lite, Stone Glacier and Hilleberg supporters on Rokslide)

I should probably get of this thread and get to work.....Patrick and I gotta figure out what corners we can cut with our new designs.

For me this really sums it up well. Kuiu has got some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen. It's not the products that drive people away from Kuiu because they make some really great stuff. It's the people running it and how they handle things. Wether it's constantly touting innovation that has no backing, or shoving transparency down your throat. The heavy moderation on their forums or them trying to keep people quite about their packs. And when you are called out on it instead of meeting the questions head on you post a blog about how awesome Kuiu is and if you were not present for the start of Kuiu you just don't understand. Kuiu would be an outstanding company if the people running it would shut their mouths and let their product sell it self, because at this point people are buying Kuiu despite the staff not because of it.

 

[gelton]

For me this really sums it up well. Kuiu has got some of the worst PR practices I have ever seen. It's not the products that drive people away from Kuiu because they make some really great stuff. It's the people running it and how they handle things. Wether it's constantly touting innovation that has no backing, or shoving transparency down your throat. The heavy moderation on their forums or them trying to keep people quite about their packs. And when you are called out on it instead of meeting the questions head on you post a blog about how awesome Kuiu is and if you were not present for the start of Kuiu you just don't understand. Kuiu would be an outstanding company if the people running it would shut their mouths and let their product sell it self, because at this point people are buying Kuiu despite the staff not because of it.

Nailed it.

 

[Akheimdahl]

Is there an old "cliff test" I can watch on here? I'm curious to see the results from previous tests.