Rifle suggestion for my 9 year old and 12 year old for elk hunting

[rambows]

My slight of build wife, and both my boys at the age of 12 cut their teeth on the 260 Remington youth model M77 Ruger. 10 dead critters later they all still love it. All kills were mule deer and pronghorn but upon postmortem inspection of lethality, I would have no reservations using it on an elk with the right load and bullet. We have been using handloaded 100gr Barnes X and they are tremendous performers.

The 7mm-08 may have an ever so slight advantage (100 fps) pushing the larger 140gr bullets but the effectiveness of the 260 for flatter shooting with lighter bullets is tough to beat for the light recoil it produces. They never remember the recoil on live game anyway. Train with an identical M77 in a lighter caliber or rimfire and develop technique and shoot the centerfire sparingly in the early stages of development.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I would never expose my son's hearing to a muzzle brake.

Absolutely not! I bring and wear ear protection on all my hunts. It can be a bit of a PITA, but hearing loss is a much bigger PITA. Bottom line is, shooting firearms without ear protection in any situation, whether it be with using a brake or not, is very damaging/traumatic to the ear drum, period. ear protection is a must, and if you don't use it, or don't require your child to use it in all situations while firing firearms, you should be held accountable. We as adults and parents have a responsibility to teach and protect our children. Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.


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[Cant hit em]

Im in the same boat , someone posted a deal on Tikka's so i price inquired

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[MTHunter20]

Is 243 something you guys see young elk hunters with alot? Living in TN I was always under the impression that it would work for elk but is not recommended. I think a 7-08 is perfect for this situation since they have reduced loads for deer and then can easily handle elk with regular loads. I think a 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor would do just as well.

 

[GKPrice]

I would never expose my son's hearing to a muzzle brake.

That is a very good rule to live by always keeping in mind that a .22 LR will damage the ears and "young" ears are just as or more vulnerable - I think most or all us realize the potential damage to hearing that firearms present, I've got a "great" case of tinnitus from a lot more abuse than just gun shots, I never shoot controlled without good ear protection in place BUT I also just can't hunt effectively with muffs or plugs in, which means I will be enduring "some" unprotected muzzle blasts each season, it's just fact but I don't kid myself - this is where I normally mention the gunsmith I'm close friends with who offers a patented design muzze brake that is baffled, crack of the shot is no louder than an non braked gun, which will still wreck your hearing - I don't like brakes at all but will take every viable precaution to protect young and younger ears and in reality as long as I will be near enough to help I'll keep a set of muffs on me to slip on another's head if I can AND they'll tolerate that, not 100% protection but you gotta try .....

 

[GKPrice]

the debate between the 243 and 7-08 has raged a time or two on Rokslide - As with other chamberings like 6.5 CM, I'm not arguing that well placed shots with todays great bullets do just fine - In realizing that with those smaller bores what you have it, if the choice is 7-08 or a host of larger bores and using reduced recoil loads a person has "room to grow" the point to ponder as some can just buy another rifle and some don't have that luxury or desire - flexible realities require flexible alternatives, it's not something to argue about but something to simply understand -As well, reduced loads are not at all difficult for the handloader to create, they're not just a "factory" deal

 

[Formidilosus]

Is 243 something you guys see young elk hunters with alot? Living in TN I was always under the impression that it would work for elk but is not recommended. I think a 7-08 is perfect for this situation since they have reduced loads for deer and then can easily handle elk with regular loads. I think a 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor would do just as well.

The wounds that a 243, 260/6.5, 7/08, 308, etc., make with good bullets are WAY more alike, than different. There is no margin of error that a 7/08 gives you that a 243/260 doesn't.







To all,


Do you buy your 16 year old a Dodge Dually, then rip the muffler off (muzzle brake), yank out some spark plugs (reduced loads), and add some weight to help with "control"? If not, why would you do the same with a rifle? A gut shot elk, is a guy shot elk and that 7/08 or 308, or whatever, really isn't buying you anything. Besides that, I'm still waiting to hear of someone that let a new/young hunter shoot an elk facing away, with ANY cartridge. Every one I have every seen or talked to waited until the animal was broadside or nearly so, and standing still. In that case- well any case- I would rather have someone using a rifle that they shot 400 times before the hunt, than one that recoils more, is louder, has more muzzle blast, is longer and heavier.

I took someone elk hunting this year that had never hunted nor shot. Using a Tikka 223 we went over and practiced marksmanship fundamentals from prone with a bipod. Once she could shoot good 10 round groups that told me she understood how the gun worked and the fundamentals, we then moved to prone off of a pack, sitting and kneeling with sticks and the pack and a bit of standing. She shot around 250 rounds from field positions with ever decreasing time standards until she could smack a 10in plate out to 450 yards or so on demand from the prone, and out to 300 or so from sitting/kneeling. All we did was treat it like a game. I then had her start shooting a 243win. After about 20 rounds it was obvious that she did not shoot it nearly as well, having to cut her ranges almost in half. From the beginning she asked what she should hunt with, and I told her just learn to shoot first, do some research and you'll know. Before the hunt she asked if they 223 was enough? I said yes, with bonded bullets as long as you put it into the lungs... same as the rest.
She researched, asked people and decided to use the 223 with 64gr Speer Goldots because she KNEW exactly where the bullet would go. We ended up not see a single elk, but she killed her first two deer with that gun- lacing both perfectly on quick shots. There was zero doubt that she would have smoked an elk with that gun if she took the shot.


Now I'm not saying that 223's are great elk guns, I'm saying that "placement, bullet,........... headstamp" in order are what matters. If we would have had more time with the 243 she would have gotten used to it, as she is now shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor, but we you'll always be better with practice and a bit of education and then let THEM decide what they want to use.

 

[Cant hit em]

Some states have a minimum caliber and bullet weight requirements , id look into them prior to hunting


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[hodgeman]

I'll also mention here that while the whole 243/7-08 thing is interesting...it's also splitting some mighty fine hairs.

There just isn't much difference in recoil between the two rounds.... 243 is something like 11 ft/lbs and the 7-08 is 12 ft/lbs. Any kid old enough to carry a rifle and play touch football is capable of shooting either one and probably can't tell the difference.

 

[RdRdrFan]

I found a screaming deal on a Tikka T3 Forrest in 7/08. Got it but didn't want to cut down the pretty wood stock. Had a gentleman from another forum give me a takeoff T3 Tupperware stock that he had laying around for the cost of shipping. Cut the stock down and filled the empty cavity with Bondo (added rigidity and weight). I'm waiting on the bolt to be returned right now but I can't imagine a better caliber and rifle for my sons to grow up on. When they are ready to move into their Cooper 6.5x284's I have for them then I can slap the wood stock back on and sell it looking pretty. Here are some pics:

When I got the stock:

After I cut it down:

Bondo:

Finished product after paint:

 

[JigStick]

6.5x47

 

[GKPrice]

Absolutely not! I bring and wear ear protection on all my hunts. It can be a bit of a PITA, but hearing loss is a much bigger PITA. Bottom line is, shooting firearms without ear protection in any situation, whether it be with using a brake or not, is very damaging/traumatic to the ear drum, period. ear protection is a must, and if you don't use it, or don't require your child to use it in all situations while firing firearms, you should be held accountable. We as adults and parents have a responsibility to teach and protect our children. Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.


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NOPE ! this is one of those times when you are welcome to stay on the "soap box", hearing loss for ANY reason is tragic (that doesn't even describe it well enough)

 

[hunter1181]

I would never expose my son's hearing to a muzzle brake.

He hunts out of a blind most of the time and always wears hearing protection. He has never fired that rifle or any other without it.

 

[Violent Hippie]

A Browning BAR in 270 might be a good choice. Being an auto and 270 the recoil is minimal.

 

[Hornseeker]

Love the paint job Raider fan.


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[RdRdrFan]

Love the paint job Raider fan.


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Thank man. I am happy with how the whole project turned out.