Rifle Improvements

[goathunter.oregon]

I currently hunt with a Ruger M77 Mark II Compact with a 16.5" barrel similar to the one shown. Here's what I don't like about it:
1) It's really loud
2) The muzzle jumps
3) More felt recoil that I prefer

When I shoot, I don't see the point of impact and I dread pulling the trigger (typically shoot 165 gr Nosler loads). I don't like shooting this rifle and I'm trying to sort out exactly what the problem is and how I address it (possibly with a new rifle).

I initially thought the felt recoil was the main problem, but I shoot a Remington 1187 12-gauge auto and a CZ Redhead 12-gauge O/U with no recoil problems. The 1187 is a gas gun, which gives more of a push than a punch when it comes to recoil, so maybe the punch of the .308 is the problem rather than the total recoil amount.

I attribute the loudness and muzzle jump to the short 16.5" barrel (please tell me if you disagree). I don't own a suppressor, so the best I can tell, my only real option to address these issues is to buy a rifle with a longer barrel and maybe look at stock design to make sure the stock recoils straight back instead of tipping the barrel up. I'd appreciate any opinions on this.

If I decide to buy a new rifle to address these issues, what is the minimum barrel length and rifle weight that I should consider? I won't be shooting past 300 yards and I mostly hunt deer and elk, so my plan is to stick with .308 or maybe .270, but not drop down to .243 for 6.5 CRD under the assumption that may not hit hard enough for elk.

Thanks.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Maybe its just me, but 308 isn't a light recoiling gun to me. Add in the blast from a short barrel 308 and its a bad combo in my eyes. When I moved on to 6.5CM, it was so nice to shoot that my shooting got better quickly. Much less muzzle blast if a decent length barrel. When I hunted with a 308, I ran the Hornady TAP 110gr which had substantially less recoil and hammered deer in the under 100yd shots we had in the thick woods.

A aftermarket stock and longer barrel will solve most of your problems...pretty much a new gun honestly.

My 6.5CM recoils/muzzle blast less than my 243 and is lighter.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

If you dont like the gun, dump it and get something you do like. No use screwing around with something that you dont like.

Are you wearing ear plugs when shooting it?

Those "recoil pads" aren't worth a shit for easing the recoil, might be worth replacing?

Does it still have the factory trigger in it? A short, lighter weight rifle with a lil recoil can really suck if the trigger is heavy or gritty.

Might be worth it to load up some light loads and run them for a while

I like shorter barreled guns. I consider 18" to be about perfect.

I always wear ear plugs and the rifle does have the factory butt pad. It does have the factory trigger and I had a gunsmith adjust it down several years ago. Thanks for the tips.

 

[t_carlson]

That rifle is certainly exacerbating all three of your complaints.

I would expect a 22" barreled .270 to be an improvement on all aspects.

The only solution to keep that rifle would be to thread it and add a suppressor.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

Maybe its just me, but 308 isn't a light recoiling gun to me. Add in the blast from a short barrel 308 and its a bad combo in my eyes. When I moved on to 6.5CM, it was so nice to shoot that my shooting got better quickly. Much less muzzle blast if a decent length barrel. When I hunted with a 308, I ran the Hornady TAP 110gr which had substantially less recoil and hammered deer in the under 100yd shots we had in the thick woods.

A aftermarket stock and longer barrel will solve most of your problems...pretty much a new gun honestly.

My 6.5CM recoils/muzzle blast less than my 243 and is lighter.

Thanks for the notes. How long is the barrel on your 6.5CM?

 

[huntsman22]

there ain't enuff barrel to thread......

 

[goathunter.oregon]

That rifle is certainly exacerbating all three of your complaints.

I would expect a 22" barreled .270 to be an improvement on all aspects.

The only solution to keep that rifle would be to thread it and add a suppressor.

Thanks, I appreciate the comments. I'm thinking about buying a suppressor, which would help me for next season. Trying to think through my options for this year. There are so many rifle options that it's tough to know where to start.

 

[Macintosh]

Relatively steeply dropped stock will increase felt recoil and has a lot to do with it, although an 11-87 isnt any better it is an autoloader and will make it much more tolerable. Short barrel will increase muzzle blast. I have an 18” 3006, its really not fun to shoot.

Frankly, if you like the gun one option would be to just buy a flat of reduced recoil cartridges and use those for practice and deer, and just step up to a different bullet if you need the range/velocity. The reduced recoil rounds kill just fine.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

Relatively steeply dropped stock will increase felt recoil and has a lot to do with it, although an 11-87 isnt any better it is an autoloader and will make it much more tolerable. Short barrel will increase muzzle blast. I have an 18” 3006, its really not fun to shoot.

Frankly, if you like the gun one option would be to just buy a flat of reduced recoil cartridges and use those for practice and deer, and just step up to a different bullet if you need the range/velocity. The reduced recoil rounds kill just fine.

I was thinking about trying the Hornady Custom Lite 125 gr SST reduced recoil loads. They drop below 100 ft lbs somewhere close to 300 yards, which would just do what I need. If anyone here has tried these, I'd like to hear the results.

 

[mt terry d]

but not drop down to .243 for 6.5 CRD under the assumption that may not hit hard enough for elk.

How hard must a bullet hit for elk?

 

[TreeDog]

I had one of these as kid as my first centerfire rifle in .243. Recoil was light, but there was a fireball out the end of the barrel every time you pulled the trigger. I think muzzle blast is having a huge effect on your shooting. I also have a lightweight 308 and the recoil can be rough. Plan on using a Tikka 6.5CM this year. Recoil is light and my shooting has noticeably improved.

This thread made me feel confident that 6.5's are more than adequate for elk sized animals:

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-5-creedmoor-260-for-deer-elk-and-whatever-else.244973/

 

[t_carlson]

I was pretty surprised when my tikka 6.5x55 recoiled softer than my tikka 243. Still haven't understood how that works

I have no idea if this is supported by physics, but I've got three Kimber Montana WSMs - 7mm, 300, and 325.

The .325 *feels* like it kicks less than the other two. Not sure what recoil formulas would say.

The 7mm kicks the worst. I shoot a couple of .338 WMs and I'd rather shoot them than the 7mm, hands down. That thing is an absolute female dog.

Based on that, I'd say velocity increases FELT recoil, regardless of what the ACTUAL recoil via mathematical calculations indicate.

 

[SloppyJ]

I'm not sure what variable is at play but shooting my 20" .308 is not as fun as shooting my 22" 280ai. The 280 has 14gr more powder, shoots heavier bullets, weighs less, but it's a lighter recoiling gun. Maybe better stated that the perceived recoil is lighter.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

How hard must a bullet hit for elk?

I'm no expert on this. From what I read, 100 ft lbs from a bullet with a sectional density of at least .250 seems to be the minimum. From the Chuck Hawks sectional density table, a 6.5 mm 125 gr bullet just meets this criteria at .256. Clearly the 6.5 CRD can take down an elk with good placement.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Thanks for the notes. How long is the barrel on your 6.5CM?

Its the standard Tikka Superlite 24" Fluted Barrel. It is light enough to carry up a mountain and still easy enough to shoot. I've had it in a Mesa Altitude and XLR chassis. both better than the factory stock as far as shootablilty to me. The muzzle blast from the Tikka 6.5 is neglible and probably why I enjoy shooting it more than any other rifle I've shot.

 

[goathunter.oregon]

I had one of these as kid as my first centerfire rifle in .243. Recoil was light, but there was a fireball out the end of the barrel every time you pulled the trigger. I think muzzle blast is having a huge effect on your shooting. I also have a lightweight 308 and the recoil can be rough. Plan on using a Tikka 6.5CM this year. Recoil is light and my shooting has noticeably improved.

This thread made me feel confident that 6.5's are more than adequate for elk sized animals:

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/6-5-creedmoor-260-for-deer-elk-and-whatever-else.244973/

I agree, there's a lot of muzzle blast. Thanks for the comments on the 6.5 CM.

 

[Macintosh]

I was thinking about trying the Hornady Custom Lite 125 gr SST reduced recoil loads. They drop below 100 ft lbs somewhere close to 300 yards, which would just do what I need. If anyone here has tried these, I'd like to hear the results.

They work great from personal experience. But ft lb has nothing to do with it, the only thing that matters is where impact velocity is too low for the bullet to upset. Try it for yourself on deer and see what you think, but Im betting you are pleasantly surprised with the result.

 

[Tmac]

Stock fit & construction are important for a number of reasons, one is felt recoil. Different stock may help, better recoil pad may help. But that short barrel will stay loud unless suppressed or shot with reduced loads. Based on what you described, I’d look hard a selling it then buying a 22” barreled 7-08. Myself, I’d be fine with a 6.5CM or 260 Rem. with a 22” barrel. You could even go 24” for a little less recoil and noise, but will have a longer rifle.

 

[mt terry d]

I'm no expert on this. From what I read......

Try reading this. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/223-for-bear-deer-elk-and-moose.130488/


BTW: My 7mm WBY and 300 Win Mag are collecting dust. My new 223 is probably the funnest thing
I've ever shot. And the elk are in trouble this fall.

 

[Unckebob]

there ain't enuff barrel to thread......

She needs to be gone.