Reloading cast lead for lever guns challenges.

[Blurry1]

I don’t think this has been discussed. I recently bought a 44mag Henry and worked up a nice deer load with h110 and xtp’s. I’ve never messed with cast bullets but decided to work up some plinking loads with some Missouri bullet 200gn coated bullets. I quickly learned that the h110 just pushes them too fast. Lower charges produced sooty cases and increased charges led to rapidly decreasing accuracy. I briefly tried cfe pistol but the low case fill makes me too uncomfortable with the risk of double charges. Take 3: I loaded up some rounds with Shooters World Heavy pistol. Accuracy improved up to 17.5 gn (2in group @ 50yds) and then expanded groups at 18 and 18.5 gn. The question: I have a couple more grains before max. Does anyone find improved accuracy going upward in charge after the groups start to spread with cast or is it a waste of powder as I suspect? Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[49ereric]

To fast? Barrel Leading issue? How hard are the bullets? 12 or 18 BHN? Tell us which bullet you are using not just the grain.
I don’t reload cast lead for rifles yet but at some point but I have the concerns you seem to mention. You might have to slug the barrel to get the size correct.

Missouri Bullet Company

Missouri Bullet Company offers premium lead bullets at affordable prices. We make hardness optimized bullets for the velocity of the loads you shoot.

www.missouribullet.com

I remember something about 44 mag rifle having a larger bore than revolvers so a .430 cast bullet might be to small.
A quick search.
The bore in that case is 12 groove, with a .423(+2/-0) bore diameter and .430(+2) groove diameter. I can say that our bore specs are set with the goal of optimizing jacketed bullet performance.

 

[Blurry1]

49ereric. Yes I suspect I have hit the speed threshold but with my limited experience with cast it’s worth the ask. I unfortunately cannot use my chronograph at the indoor range but I’m guessing I’m running about 1700fps.

Here is the bullet.
Bullet Missouri bullet company
.44 hi tell stalker
.430 diameter
200gn rnfp
Bullet oal.586
“For magnum loads”

At the most accurate load I’m still getting a bit of soot and the crimp doesn’t fully expand out. I may just try a hotter primer or .2 grain more to see if it gets me there.

 

[49ereric]

Good hard bullet you have so no issue there I believe.
Find a .431 and or .432 bullet. Sample packs of both if possible.
Chrono isn’t needed just is the barrel leading and accuracy.

 

[buffybr]

I've shot cast lead bullets in many of my rifles, including my .375 RUM, for many years. I cast them with wheel weights or harder lead and are bullets that use gas checks.

The cast bullets that I use in my .375 RUM weigh 280 gr and with IMR 4198 powder and a dacron filler will shoot under 2" 3-shot groups at 100 yds that hit 5-6" below my full power 300 gr TSX loads.

 

[Sinistram]

Couple points with your quest, as I load for a few 44's and a 444 Marlin rifle:

• You've discovered reduced charges of H110 is a no-go. This is a "max load or nothing" powder and is my go-to for such things. I'd never use it with regular lead bullets for fear of driving them too fast and leading the crap out of the barrel.
• I know you tried faster powders but were uncomfortable because of case fill, but you might be selling yourself short. Attention to detail is a part of reloading, and if you're not trying quicker pistol powders (Unique, AA5, W231, etc.) you're not having as much fun as you should. I settled on lighter charges of W231 for scenarios like yours and have been very happy. 240's at either 750 or 950fps are super fun out of handguns and total powder puffs out of a rifle. Adjust accordingly for 200's.
• If you're sticking with Heavy Pistol, I'd stay with your 17.5gr load if it's accurate. No sense in maxing out the practice/goofing around load. Make it comfortable to shoot and save the heavy stuff for hunting.

To editorialize a bit - you might want to try plated bullets instead of cast. I am migrating away from lead (not hard cast, though) to plated for range time. So much less BS to deal with and dramatically cleaner all around. They only cost a few pennies more a piece, which I'm happy to pay.

 

[Blurry1]

Thanks for the awesome reply’s. Sounds like my initial instinct was correct and to stick with where I’m at or as suggested consider powder or bullet changes. Unfortunately or fortunately I’m sitting on 500 of the current bullet so powder may be the play. I’ll have to reconsider my hesitation about small charges. I’ve had my eye out for unique and some of those more desirable and better documented powder for years but never see them. He’ll it wasn’t till the last year that I could finally get a few pounds of varget to play with.

 

[49ereric]

Thanks for the awesome reply’s. Sounds like my initial instinct was correct and to stick with where I’m at or as suggested consider powder or bullet changes. Unfortunately or fortunately I’m sitting on 500 of the current bullet so powder may be the play. I’ll have to reconsider my hesitation about small charges. I’ve had my eye out for unique and some of those more desirable and better documented powder for years but never see them. He’ll it wasn’t till the last year that I could finally get a few pounds of varget to play with.

Alliant suspended civilian powder sales so not going to find any unique.

 

[Blurry1]

Well that’s a bummer. Now I’m regretting passing on several Reloader powders I saw not too long ago.

 

[IowaNative]

Couple points with your quest, as I load for a few 44's and a 444 Marlin rifle:

• You've discovered reduced charges of H110 is a no-go. This is a "max load or nothing" powder and is my go-to for such things. I'd never use it with regular lead bullets for fear of driving them too fast and leading the crap out of the barrel.
• I know you tried faster powders but were uncomfortable because of case fill, but you might be selling yourself short. Attention to detail is a part of reloading, and if you're not trying quicker pistol powders (Unique, AA5, W231, etc.) you're not having as much fun as you should. I settled on lighter charges of W231 for scenarios like yours and have been very happy. 240's at either 750 or 950fps are super fun out of handguns and total powder puffs out of a rifle. Adjust accordingly for 200's.
• If you're sticking with Heavy Pistol, I'd stay with your 17.5gr load if it's accurate. No sense in maxing out the practice/goofing around load. Make it comfortable to shoot and save the heavy stuff for hunting.

To editorialize a bit - you might want to try plated bullets instead of cast. I am migrating away from lead (not hard cast, though) to plated for range time. So much less BS to deal with and dramatically cleaner all around. They only cost a few pennies more a piece, which I'm happy to pay.

Not to vere too far off, but what bullet are you using for 444? I am trying to find something for my SRH as well as my marlin.

 

[Sinistram]

Well that’s a bummer. Now I’m regretting passing on several Reloader powders I saw not too long ago.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Alliant can go jump in a lake as far as I'm concerned. Once their prices started skyrocketing and we kept getting BS availability excuses (Ukraine war? Really?), I moved away from them wholesale. Their powders do absolutely nothing others won't for less money and with better supply. I mentioned Unique only casually, as it's one the old timers used. Personally, I think it's horribly dirty, and I'd happily adopt one of the newer powders - W244 comes to mind - and take advantage of the enhanced performance and clean burning characteristics. Check out the Hodgdon reloading site and see what data they have for the 44/200. I'm sure it's a lot.

Not to vere too far off, but what bullet are you using for 444? I am trying to find something for my SRH as well as my marlin.

Most of the bullets I load in the 444 also work in the 44. For hunting with the Marlin, I laid in a supply of the (sadly discontinued) Hornady 265gr. FP. They developed the bullet in the 70's or so specifically for the Marlin, as regular 44 pistol bullets were too soft for the higher velocities. I've also been very happy with the Hornady 300gr. XTP, which is still readily available. To, @Blurry1 , if you really want to have some fun with the 44, load up some 300's at modest velocity. It's like shooting a ping pong ball!

For practice with either cartridge, I started using Xtreme Bullets plated projectiles around 10 years ago and have shot thousands of them with excellent results. You can drive them surprisingly fast (~1800fps, IIRC) and they're sooooo much cleaner and easier to load than cast. I recommend.

 

[MallardSX2]

Op

Did you try gas checking those bullets?

Powder coating and gas checking together has worked well for me.