Rei now

[dotman]

Nope, there's a few lists out there. If my. Memory serves me correctly I don't believe any of them were hunting affiliated. National parks foundation, biking associations, some scenic associations, local trails, etc...

I believe I've stated in a previous post that they have not donated to hunters or anglers...

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See I don’t think they have donated a dime to actual conservation, clearing trails for people is not conservation, they haven’t donated to improve actual wildlife habitat. I’m not even talking for improving hunting or fishing, just actual habitat projects.

Maybe Vista hasn’t donated cash directly but they do donate to organizations like RMEF, WSF etc with goods to be used at banquets to raise funds that 90%+ does go back into actual wildlife conservation projects.

 

[cuerro viejo]

What is foresttrails.org? Do they clear blow downs from game trails? Sound to me like they just keep hiking trails cleared by the name, that makes a huge impact on conservation.

It was a joke, but I did read about one of thier trail charities. Which isn’t conservation as you stated but falls under the conservation.org declaration

 

[mtwarden]

Haha, didn’t you know, a tax is a forced donation

now it's making sense

 

[cuerro viejo]

what part of donate don't you get? it's an excise TAX- WE pay it- sportsman and sportswomen, not Winchester, not Federal, not any manufacturer

they aren't donating jack, the federal govt enacted an excise tax, they are required to collect it on arms and ammo they sell and hand it over- if they don't as required by law, they get fined or go to jail- they aren't donating anything

what part of fuel tax is donation? trick question- NONE, it's not a donation, its a tax

damn good thing you weren't around during the Revolutionary War- you'd been right with the Brits- "quit your complaining, we're not taxing you, you're donating it"

Now let’s think about this for a second, if an industry wants something, it gets it, even Obamacare got insurance companies on board with billions in subsidizes....if they didn’t want it, it wouldn’t of happened period.

Fact of the matter is Savage and Federal and thier customers wanted it. 80 years later that’s still proven true

Now let’s talk about why they had it as a tax not a donation/charity. An excrise tax is protected and can be only used under the specifications allotted/defined. Donations not so much, much looser oversight, donations also don’t take an act of Congress to change the appropriations. So do you want a billion dollars a year going to yourmommalovestrees.org or would you like states have options and be able to partner with orgs and apply for PR dollars through proper allocation governance?

You can argue it’s not the same as charity and you technically are 100% right, this was a better way of funding conservation and that’s why it was set up the way it was. But to argue the intent wasn’t the same has a Conservation charity is not very reflective on the importance and reason behind

I’m damn sure glad they did it as a tax and then re-defined the stipulations even more in 2001.

Hell I’d go as far as to define PR as a conservation tithing in spirt, more then a tax

 

[brocksw]

See I don’t think they have donated a dime to actual conservation, clearing trails for people is not conservation, they haven’t donated to improve actual wildlife habitat. I’m not even talking for improving hunting or fishing, just actual habitat projects.

Maybe Vista hasn’t donated cash directly but they do donate to organizations like RMEF, WSF etc with goods to be used at banquets to raise funds that 90%+ does go back into actual wildlife conservation projects.

There has been some habitat restoration in Washington, some waterways conservation. But you're right it's largely not conservation as you might think it.

However, I mountain bike, hike, use trails, parks... So it's still conservation that has the potential to benefit me or people like me... It's just not "hunting conservation" like we commonly think of it as hunters.

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[brocksw]

You make government oversight sound so wonderful and efficient... Your logic is sound in theory and maybe even intent. However, one not need to look very far to see inefficiency in the government process... Especially when it comes to lots and lots of money. The PR act was reformed, it will be reformed again in the future I'm sure. I believe ive seen some articles in the last few years calling for a "re-modernization" of the PR fund.

My point is that a tax and government allocation of that tax promises very little except government inefficiency and politics(not to discredit that the PR has done A LOT of good) . So while REI donations can certainly be scrutinized, and I would agree with some of what you said in that matter, I am under no illusion that the governments way is the end all be all. If it was, there would be no need for RMEF, MDF, BHA, etc... Because the glorious and all knowing government would take care of it for us.

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[dotman]

There has been some habitat restoration in Washington, some waterways conservation. But you're right it's largely not conservation as you might think it.

However, I mountain bike, hike, use trails, parks... So it's still conservation that has the potential to benefit me or people like me... It's just not "hunting conservation" like we commonly think of it as hunters.

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Yeah I get that and it is good for getting people out, I just don’t consider it conservation of anything but trails. Not sure I agree with that type of donation being tax deductible but I guess it does go to improving areas for people use, human conservation maybe

 

[brocksw]

Yeah I get that and it is good for getting people out, I just don’t consider it conservation of anything but trails. Not sure I agree with that type of donation being tax deductible but I guess it does go to improving areas for people use, human conservation maybe

Well tax deductible yes.. But if it being tax deductible was such a great deal... Why doesn't every organization under the son donate to all the great charities? Of course a donation being Tax deductible is an incentive... But hardly worth getting riled up about when you look at our welfare state, both socially and corporately.

Ultimately it's an incentive/tax break to donate. I can think of far more nefarious ways to get the private sector to contribute to society and conservation.

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[brocksw]

After all this I'm ready to start my own advertising campaign, maybe even a website. Then I can promote all of the good, wonderful things my tax money, I mean my donations, have contributed in "human conservation".

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[leprechaun]

The role REI plays is this: It introduces people to the outdoors and makes it trendy for people to care about public lands. They have stirred up support just like Patagonia etc and raised awareness.

Meanwhile the NRA supports politicians who would let extraction have its way everywhere, clearcut everything we can, graze cattle on the slash, pump oil, and mine uranium till the mountains collapse in on themselves. We have made it so easy for politicians to appease us on guns and then stab us in the back on everything else.

 

[WRO]

The role REI plays is this: It introduces people to the outdoors and makes it trendy for people to care about public lands. They have stirred up support just like Patagonia etc and raised awareness.

Meanwhile the NRA supports politicians who would let extraction have its way everywhere, clearcut everything we can, graze cattle on the slash, pump oil, and mine uranium till the mountains collapse in on themselves. We have made it so easy for politicians to appease us on guns and then stab us in the back on everything else.

Or you can support bongo beating hippies that make everything walk in, suppress fires, hate predator control, and support wild horses turning even the nicest looking piece of ground into a game devoid shit hole.

We got a pile of that kinda ground in Oregon.

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[cuerro viejo]

You make government oversight sound so wonderful and efficient... Your logic is sound in theory and maybe even intent. However, one not need to look very far to see inefficiency in the government process... Especially when it comes to lots and lots of money. The PR act was reformed, it will be reformed again in the future I'm sure. I believe ive seen some articles in the last few years calling for a "re-modernization" of the PR fund.

My point is that a tax and government allocation of that tax promises very little except government inefficiency and politics(not to discredit that the PR has done A LOT of good) . So while REI donations can certainly be scrutinized, and I would agree with some of what you said in that matter, I am under no illusion that the governments way is the end all be all. If it was, there would be no need for RMEF, MDF, BHA, etc... Because the glorious and all knowing government would take care of it for us.

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In the case of a billion dollars a year, specifically set aside for conservation of wildlife and its habitat, absolutely government oversight is needed!!! I’m Texas boy you think I’m into big government? Hell no, but in the case of conservation that’s based off real science, why wouldn’t you be a fan of checks and balances. The PR funds are pretty efficient actually. Could they be more efficient, absolutely. But as a whole they are good.

One of the beauties of PR is conservation orgs like REMF, wildsheep, trout unlimited etc can allocate money to a state based project and PR can match. So now we have charity/.org money, state money and now PR money all on the same project. That’s efficiency and a hell of a collaboration.


REI or any one else in the outdoor industry isn’t interested in matching PR. If someone truly preaches conservation then why would they not match or mimic it?

 

[dotman]

Or you can support bongo beating hippies that make everything walk in, suppress fires, hate predator control, and support wild horses turning even the nicest looking piece of ground into a game devoid shit hole.

We got a pile of that kinda ground in Oregon.

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Whatever happened to that amazing state land that was to be sold because the bongo beating hippies ruined its viability for human use and the state couldn’t afford to keep it?

 

[dotman]

After all this I'm ready to start my own advertising campaign, maybe even a website. Then I can promote all of the good, wonderful things my tax money, I mean my donations, have contributed in "human conservation".

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Haha, well human use does matter but it’s still not conservation.

 

[WRO]

Whatever happened to that amazing state land that was to be sold because the bongo beating hippies ruined its viability for human use and the state couldn’t afford to keep it?

You mean the Elliott state forest?

That sale fell through.



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[leprechaun]

Or you can support bongo beating hippies that make everything walk in, suppress fires, hate predator control, and support wild horses turning even the nicest looking piece of ground into a game devoid shit hole.

We got a pile of that kinda ground in Oregon.

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There's no doubt that humans have screwed up land management for as long as we have been around. The fact is, we are getting better and learning from our mistakes. Land management groups need to be funded, and the public needs to be educated on what they are doing and why. Road closures are a component of habitat conservation--pretty surprised to hear beef on that on this forum of all places--I thought we all liked to walk! As far as predators go, walk down to your local Ranger District and have a biologist give you a run down on what the riparian areas in this state look like now, and what they should look like, and how these changes will affect ungulates/wildlife. Maybe we have some growing pains ahead, but that doesn't mean we aren't headed in the right direction!

 

[WRO]

There's no doubt that humans have screwed up land management for as long as we have been around. The fact is, we are getting better and learning from our mistakes. Land management groups need to be funded, and the public needs to be educated on what they are doing and why. Road closures are a component of habitat conservation--pretty surprised to hear beef on that on this forum of all places--I thought we all liked to walk! As far as predators go, walk down to your local Ranger District and have a biologist give you a run down on what the riparian areas in this state look like now, and what they should look like, and how these changes will affect ungulates/wildlife. Maybe we have some growing pains ahead, but that doesn't mean we aren't headed in the right direction!

Or you can go talk to the bios on the ground, they'll tell you the same thing in every district that's not Portland or Eugene.. Too many cats and choked out forests.

I don't care what most forest pigs (rangers) say, as they're pretty likely to be bongo beaters too.

There's enough wilderness and monuments now.

Want to see any example of great habitat and crashing game populations, go to Hart mtn. Deer have crashed, sheep populations are down 60%, antelope are much more susceptible to crash and burn cycles, But hey there's no cows and nice rapairian areas.

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[leprechaun]

I don't know anything about what happened at Hart Mountain so I will have to educate myself on that! I still hold the same belief that land is better protected in federal hands, especially with a designation that discourages extraction/grazing.

It's likely my opinion was formed from living in a state where the only public land left was swamp land and probably 90+% of the state shot deer on food plots planted on land leased from paper companies.

 

[Schism]

I happened to be listening to this podcast today and felt this was relevant and may better articulate the BHA/NRA/guns topic that Buzz was referencing above. Mind you this comes from people I consider to be powerhouse hunting, fishing, and conservation minds including that of Land Tawney the CEO of BHA. More than one member of this podcast (who are also strong spporters of BHA) state they are Life Members of the NRA. If after listening to that section of the podcast you believe that BHA is against guns I can’t help you. In fact I would say that by listening to that podcast I know the BHA is PRO gun and disappointed the NRA hasn’t taken a stance to preserve many of the places that firearms owners recreate and use their firearms which in the eyes of the members of the podcast is ANTI gun.

Fast forward to 1:41:15 to hear the NRA segment.

BHA Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring by Backcountry Hunters & Anglers on Apple Podcasts

 

[jmden]

I happened to be listening to this podcast today and felt this was relevant and may better articulate the BHA/NRA/guns topic that Buzz was referencing above. Mind you this comes from people I consider to be powerhouse hunting, fishing, and conservation minds including that of Land Tawney the CEO of BHA. More than one member of this podcast (who are also strong spporters of BHA) state they are Life Members of the NRA. If after listening to that section of the podcast you believe that BHA is against guns I can’t help you. In fact I would say that by listening to that podcast I know the BHA is PRO gun and disappointed the NRA hasn’t taken a stance to preserve many of the places that firearms owners recreate and use their firearms which in the eyes of the members of the podcast is ANTI gun.

Fast forward to 1:41:15 to hear the NRA segment.

BHA Podcast & Blast with Hal Herring by Backcountry Hunters & Anglers on Apple Podcasts

Worth listening to...