Received the Vaccine today...

[MattB]

I have no disdain for anyone who wants to get the Rona vaccine, if it makes you feel better then great. But reality has to play a role in decision making, under the age of 65 and you have a less than 1% chance of ending up seriously ill. At the same time that less than 1% percentage will scare people into getting something put in their body that the “experts” don’t even have all the answers for. I’m in no hurry to get it and I was one of the first ones in the state of Colorado offered it back in Dec. For now I’ll pass!

Honest question and not picking on your position, but folks who don't want the vaccine seem to lead their position with "I", but they never seem to come at it from the perspective of "we" - the societal and economic benefit we all enjoy. Are folks just thinking about themselves when they approach it from that perspective?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Honest question and not picking on your position, but folks who don't want the vaccine seem to lead their position with "I", but they never seem to come at it from the perspective of "we" - the societal and economic benefit we all enjoy. Are folks just thinking about themselves when they approach it from that perspective?

You sound just like a socialist. What would make the societal and economic benefit even better is if WE all made the same amount of money and had the same health benefits...right? Screw agency.

 

[Alaskanopolis]

Honest question and not picking on your position, but folks who don't want the vaccine seem to lead their position with "I", but they never seem to come at it from the perspective of "we" - the societal and economic benefit we all enjoy. Are folks just thinking about themselves when they approach it from that perspective?

We don't need to take a first-of-its-kind vaccine not approved by the FDA. When the FDA fully approves a vaccine I will reexamine whether or not I should take it. Until then, anyone that isn't me can mind their own business and shoot whatever they want into their bodies and I won't say a word.

 

[Alaskanopolis]

This thread being entertaining is quite the understatement. My wife gets hers today and I get mine Wednesday (both moderna or Pfizer). Everyone I work with has gotten either of those two vaccines so I can’t speak to the Johnson and Johnson. The worst reaction of the ten to fifteen people has been feeling tired for a day.

Hasn't been long enough to determine any longterm issues, since the vaccines were only authorized for emergency use and not fully approved by the FDA. Hopefully the talk about the possibility of immune over response to future coronaviruses are just crazy conspiracy theories.

 

[MattB]

You sound just like a socialist. What would make the societal and economic benefit even better is if WE all made the same amount of money and had the same health benefits...right? Screw agency.

We see more and more small business storefronts going empty by the week as people lose their livelihoods due to this pandemic and that bothers me. Does halting that sound like socialism? Or support for the American dream?

My dad volunteered for the military although he did not have to and was in Korea for the first 2 years of my life. His dad was at Guadalcanal in WW2. I have an appreciation and a willingness for a level of self-sacrifice for the benefit of the greater good.

You?

 

[Alaskanopolis]

We see more and more small business storefronts going empty by the week as people lose their livelihoods due to this pandemic and that bothers me. Does halting that sound like socialism? Or support for the American dream?

My dad volunteered for the military although he did not have to and was in Korea for the first 2 years of my life. His dad was at Guadalcanal in WW2. I have an appreciation and a willingness for a level of self-sacrifice for the benefit of the greater good.

You?

The pandemic didn't close those stores down, the government did.

 

[MattB]

The pandemic didn't close those stores down, the government did.

And why did the government do that? You are playing a semantics game. The more important question is what is the fastest path to getting the government to open the economy in the context of the pandemic?

 

[Marbles]

You sound just like a socialist. What would make the societal and economic benefit even better is if WE all made the same amount of money and had the same health benefits...right? Screw agency.

Well as we are going to make ridiculous straw men out of each others arguments rather than engaging in a civil discussion; you sound like an anarchist. What would make the individualism even better is if we disband the police and military. After all, those are both expressions of colective action that require people to think about more than themselves and we don't want those socialist ideas.

 

[Alaskanopolis]

Well as we are going to make ridiculous straw men out of each others arguments rather than engaging in a civil discussion; you sound like an anarchist. What would make the individualism even better is if we disband the police and military. After all, those are both expressions of colective action that require people to think about more than themselves and we don't want those socialist ideas.

What tired tropes. A society having a police force and military has nothing to do with socialism outside of socialist countries typically having those features as well; but the State dictating which businesses are essential, instead of markets, definitely does.

 

[Marbles]

What tired tropes. A society having a police force and military has nothing to do with socialism outside of socialist countries typically having those features as well; but the State dictating which businesses are essential, instead of markets, definitely does.

The state has long dictated what businesses are essential during times of trouble. In the US that extends back to the Revolutionary War. What justifies it (or what should count as times of trouble) is a legitimate debate, and even essential. Saying that the government doing it in any copacity is socialism is a lazy and ignorant argument, and a very tired trope.

It is also worth pointing out the post by @MattB that @FIGJAM was replying to had nothing to do with socialism; which is why my paragraph structure in the post you replied to clearly says that I consider the arguments that follows to be a "ridiculous strawman" so, thanks for highlighting what I already said. It takes special talent to pick a fight with ones own position.

 

[Ozarkansas]

We don't need to take a first-of-its-kind vaccine not approved by the FDA. When the FDA fully approves a vaccine I will reexamine whether or not I should take it. Until then, anyone that isn't me can mind their own business and shoot whatever they want into their bodies and I won't say a word.

If it makes you feel any better there are now non-mRNA covid vaccines that are based on more proven “traditional” methods of producing safe vaccines, they’re still just at the emergency approval stage though. I have no idea if that impacts your decision or not but it’s worth noting.

 

[bobinmi]

Same thing happened to a friend of mine. Father caught pneumonia, then died in the hospital alone because of the covid rules. Pretty sad that we threw humanity right out the window during all this.

I work security at the hospital and it gives me a good chance to observe and see how things are working. I can tell you that the reason we wouldn't let in visitors is the same reason you can't sue the vaccine producer. We live in a litigious society. One family member catches it in that room and it only takes one person to see dollar signs and start a lawsuit.

 

[Fatcamp]

Same thing happened to a friend of mine. Father caught pneumonia, then died in the hospital alone because of the covid rules. Pretty sad that we threw humanity right out the window during all this.

Ya, it was horrible. Month after month of patients isolated from family, many not speaking English or confused, really took its toll. On them and us. Early on I saw a woman receiving last rights over an iPad. Horrible. Absolutely horrible.

I make no judgement on it, just share what it was like.

 

[Marbles]

Not really related to this thread, but the topic came up, so.

I have really hated enforcing the no visitors rule and have put my job on the line a few times to allow someone back in exceptional cases. As a nightshift charge nurse in an ED it worked, inpatient units and/or dayshift would have had a much harder time pulling it off and I cannot do it when I'm not the charge nurse as then it is someone elses head on the block.

Thankfully about a week ago the facility I work at started allowing one visitor per patient.

 

[Dos Perros]

The more important question is what is the fastest path to getting the government to open the economy in the context of the pandemic?

Just open things up. It's pretty simple.

 

[WCB]

We see more and more small business storefronts going empty by the week as people lose their livelihoods due to this pandemic and that bothers me. Does halting that sound like socialism? Or support for the American dream?

My dad volunteered for the military although he did not have to and was in Korea for the first 2 years of my life. His dad was at Guadalcanal in WW2. I have an appreciation and a willingness for a level of self-sacrifice for the benefit of the greater good.

You?

Kinda sounds like the government wanting the power. Stricter restrictions have not shown to lead to different results. I agree with the untested non FDA approved shot line of thinking as a start. As more traditional types hit the market I think you will see more people choose to get them. I probably won't be one of them though...never had a flu vaccine either.

You asked about the "I" mentality. You are somewhat correct. MY first priority is what I feel is safe for my family and myself. I'm not sticking something in my arm because someone else feels I should. I also have a 2 year old and a pregnant wife...should I test it out on them also?

Don't play the my family volunteered for game...My grandpa signed up for the Marines when he was 16 served then re-volunteered to go to Korea. He is 92 years old and we talked about the vaccine (which he got). He believes it is a personal choice and holds nothing over anyone heads because of what he did or didn't do.

There are a lot of things for "the greater good" that you probably would no go along with. Not that they haven't in the past but be interesting what the government will try to pull now that they have a very visible strong foothold on "the greater good" path to control.

 

[307]

MY first priority is what I feel is safe for my family and myself. I'm not sticking something in my arm because someone else feels I should.

Aren't there literally thousands of things that you do, mostly unknowingly, because some expert somewhere decided that's how it should be?

Do you personally oversee sanitization standards in the hospital where you child was born? Do you independently develop guidelines for vehicle tires, brakes, or any other component of automobile safety standards? Have you personally written codes for the electric wiring that runs through your house? Of course you didn't. There are nearly endless examples where you relied upon people who are actual experts in those various fields do determine what you should do.

All of this "I know best" is a facade. We rely on experts every day.

"I do my own research" is always good for a laugh. Most people who claim this couldn't recognize a basic statistical model if it bit them in the ass.

 

[Dos Perros]

Aren't there literally thousands of things that you do, mostly unknowingly, because some expert somewhere decided that's how it should be?

Do you personally oversee sanitization standards in the hospital where you child was born? Do you independently develop guidelines for vehicle tires, brakes, or any other component of automobile safety standards? Have you personally written codes for the electric wiring that runs through your house? Of course you didn't. You relied upon people who are actual experts in those various fields.

All of this "I know best" is a facade. We rely on experts every day.

"I do my own research" is always good for a laugh. Most people who claim this couldn't recognize a basic statistical model if it bit them in the ass.

I'll speak for myself. I can recognize a basic statistical model.

 

[307]

I'll speak for myself. I can recognize a basic statistical model.

Excellent, do you have the capacity to analyze the raw data involved in the vaccine clinical trials? Do you have that level of education, training, or experience?

 

[TexasCub]

Honest question and not picking on your position, but folks who don't want the vaccine seem to lead their position with "I", but they never seem to come at it from the perspective of "we" - the societal and economic benefit we all enjoy. Are folks just thinking about themselves when they approach it from that perspective?

When it comes to my health, I don’t base my decisions on what other people think. I’ve been surrounded by people who got it, none seriously ill. I’m 100% certain that many people have natural immunity to the virus just like any other virus. I’m not ready to put something in my body with so many unknowns just because the govt tells me it’s good for me and you. If people were dieing all around me then maybe I’d look at it differently, however I can’t even count the total number of people close to me or related to me that got it with no serious effects to no effects. So I’m supposed to run out and get something with no long term studies to protect me from something I’m not really worried about?