realistic velocities for .223 88 eld?

[T28w]

Book max is over 23 I believe at a short coal

 

[Packmansion]

Book max is over 23 I believe at a short coal

What? Can you share that load data? Hornady says 21.1 for h4895 and velocity of 2550...

 

[wind gypsy]

What? Can you share that load data? Hornady says 21.1 for h4895 and velocity of 2550...

Not sure what data T28w is referring to. I assume the Hornady data is based upon 54k PSI and a SAAMI chamber? Significantly different from a longer freebore and not limiting oneself to 54k PSI obviously but I bet those loads got significantly above 62k PSI too!

 

[T28w]

What? Can you share that load data? Hornady says 21.1 for h4895 and velocity of 2550...

I should have put it in my previous post about the 77s

 

[T28w]

It was in response more to the question of why even do a ladder above book max. Well book max at saami is a reference if you are not using saami specs.
I’d want to know I how close to pressure signs I am if running a hot load, so yeah I’d do a ladder and see where I hit pressure, then back down a safe margin.
When I was looking g for info on a load for 77 tmk and 8208, very similar to h4895, every load data I saw for a bolt gun not restricted to a coal was over book max. I did a ladder and never hit pressure from what I remember and settled on a load slightly over book max.

 

[Packmansion]

Not sure what data T28w is referring to. I assume the Hornady data is based upon 54k PSI and a SAAMI chamber? Significantly different from a longer freebore and not limiting oneself to 54k PSI obviously but I bet those loads got significantly above 62k PSI too!

Hornady data is for 60k. They state that the 5.56 nato is rated to 60 even though it isn't lol.

 

[mpwolf]

the 88 eld is 2.465 COAL, so certainly not your usual Tikka throat/mag confines over all length. Even so, these loads are obviously way over pressure. I knew I was goin over book max, and to be honest, I expected to see more visible pressure signs on the brass. I probably should have stopped earlier, but curiosity got the better of me. I have done lots of load work ups over the years, but never with a small bolt face Tikka, and I'm very impressed by how it handled the pressure. Rest assured, I'll back off and load to sane levels.

 

[T28w]

At what point were you compressing loads?

 

[mpwolf]

At what point were you compressing loads?

I'm not sure. Will check when I go to load the next ones.

 

[Packmansion]

I saw on ultimate reloaded they took a 308 win in a bat machine action up to like 80 or 90k no pressure signs. I think they were getting 300 prc velocities.

 

[mpwolf]

I saw on ultimate reloaded they took a 308 win in a bat machine action up to like 80 or 90k no pressure signs. I think they were getting 300 prc velocities.

just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!

 

[mt terry d]

Doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't either.

 

[mpwolf]

A man’s got to know his limitations…

 

[35WhelenAI]

Doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't either.

Yeah, it does. The worst advice or comment that can be given in a reloading discussion, regardless of a wink and a smile emoji.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Maybe he was just showing with some guns you can be way off from where you think you are if you are waiting to physically see signs of pressure? Almost a warning of sorts.

I have not loaded 88s but if he is running with 24ish with the 77s, that’s not even really that high depending on where he is seating it, which seems very shallow if he is .050 off in a tikka .223.

That's a good post. Loading manuals for as long as they've been around have said when reaching max charge, that's where you stop. Regardless of signs not being present. Of course getting signs before max charge and playing the game of my gun is different than anyone else's, is not the best idea. However, folks push charges until they see signs, and back off, even if backing off is still over the book max. It just doesn't make sense. Go up to a bigger case, shooting the same bullet you want to use, and safely meet or easily exceed what the over max loads get in the current gun.

 

[Packmansion]

just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!

Yea I would never do that lol. It was a good video because it really shows you how insanely far your could go with a good action and good brass. They even say in the video do not do this. They had all kinds of monitoring stuff. However it does beg the question if you can run a good action with good brass at such a high pressure then whats going on here? How many loadings could he get? What is the actual max pressure and what is a good factor of safety? Is it dangerous? Is saami overly cautious and what is their factor of safety?I shoot 223 to get 223 velocity, and to get good barrel life so I can shoot a lot. So as other have said get a bigger catridge. I only load to book max. I do not load over that. My guess is saami pressures have a good factor of safety of atleast 1.5 but thats a guess... also if you want more speed you can use varget or staball match or cfe 223, Hornady lists 2700 to 2750 for all those powders out of a 20" barrel, for a 24' 2850 isn't out of the question for staball match.

 

[FLS]

Lots of F class shooters running 24+ grains of H4895 in Lapua brass with 80-90: grain bullets for 3-600 yd matches. There is almost no comparison to a factory SAMMI Iength 223 and a long throat 223 loaded out to 2.4” and beyond. They have little in common other than brass. Western powders used to provide long throat 223 Load data. Here is some older Sierra .223 bolt gun load data for the 80 SMK.