Realistic mental training?

[Jpsmith1]

Well, the only solution to that is mental reconditioning. Draw on bucks, but do not fire, intentionally let them go. It will make for one crappy season, but might make for a lot of better ones down the road.

Stop putting such a high importance on getting a buck in your mind.

I believe that, if I do that, I'll hang the bow up for good

For real.

 

[NXTZ]

Hard to do when you suck at hunting.

Do you have opportunities to hunt small game? It’s a ton of fun and great practice, and you’ll get more shot opportunities than on big game.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Do you have opportunities to hunt small game? It’s a ton of fun and great practice, and you’ll get more shot opportunities than on big game.

I've given this some consideration and I probably should explore it further.

While there is a pretty significant overlap between archery deer season and small game season, there are opportunities for small game with a bow, yes

 

[Jpsmith1]

Well, the only solution to that is mental reconditioning. Draw on bucks, but do not fire, intentionally let them go. It will make for one crappy season, but might make for a lot of better ones down the road.

Stop putting such a high importance on getting a buck in your mind.

So, in the interest of full disclosure and maybe to give everyone a better insight into why bucks get to me far more than doe do, I'm going to lay out a condensed timeline of my hunting career.

1987, I'm 12. A forked horn whitetail crests the hillside and turns. I've got the rifle up and on him almost instantly. My dad is whispering "shoot him" in my ear. I freeze, forget to pull the trigger and he trots off.

2011, I get my second opportunity to shoot at a buck, this time with a bow. I miss low because I have no idea how much larger a buck is than a doe and he looks for all the world like he's 20 yards away when he's actually 30 or a little more.

I need to make it very clear that Pennsylvania is not a draw state. We get a buck tag every year and doe tags are easy to get. I have only missed one deer season in my life and that was the 2022 deer season and it was due to a serious injury that kept me from doing anything.

In 2020, 33 years after that first buck, a friend invited me to their place and pushed a buck in front of me. I used the exact same rifle I had that day. I was strangely calm and can remember thinking "1 2 3. 3 points. Legal buck. Ok. Vitals behind a tree. Wait. Safe off. Clear. Squeeze." And the deer didn't run 50 yards.

Last season, I had an 8 point (eastern count) come in during archery. I do remember having the presence of mind to talk to myself. "OK. Legal buck. Ok. KILL THIS DEER. Head behind a tree. DRAW!. Anchor. Solid. Ok. Wait. Wait. Vitals clear. Settle the pin. Hold low for the drop. And pull, pull, pull pullpullpull" I was NOT As calm and collected as I was with the rifle, but I had some ability and didn't completely black out.

What I failed to do was set my sights correctly for the range, so I shot a 20 yard pin for a 27 yard deer.

So, there. That's my story. A buck, getting a buck is so important because it's something I haven't done. Or maybe I feel like it's something I haven't completely earned having had the only one I've tagged basically served up on a platter.

 

[Beendare]

Practice The right shot process…that helps solve issues on real critters

 

[Jason Snyder]

You are very likely thinking about killing the buck rather than executing the shot.

Was it a perfect shot sequence on the deer? It wouldn’t seem that misjudging 20-27 yards would cause a miss? At least with my equipment and what I’m guessing the body size deer we are talking.

Please don’t be offended, but you are very likely lacking the mental discipline to be present in the moment and do what you need to do. You are thinking of the outcome and not the process, and in doing so neglecting what matters most.

You’ve already given yourself the out in that “I suck and I’ll never be as good as them “. You’ve justified why it’s okay to let arrows go that aren’t perfect.

You say you can execute a shot sequence in demand, but is that a perfect shot sequence every time or is “good enough just good enough”.

Also, if you simply cannot draw on a buck and let down because the shot isn’t perfect or within your wheelhouse at the time, then you need to recalibrate.

 

[*zap*]

find someone to wager $1k per shot with, then shoot 50 times against them...

I think mental stress exercises would involve problem solving while under physical stress. Shooting a bow may be problem solving to a degree but not as difficult as getting your heart rate way up and the doing math problems in your head while you keep your heart rate up. That is a very good exercise for functioning under physical/mental stress.

 

[Marbles]

So, in the interest of full disclosure and maybe to give everyone a better insight into why bucks get to me far more than doe do, I'm going to lay out a condensed timeline of my hunting career.

1987, I'm 12. A forked horn whitetail crests the hillside and turns. I've got the rifle up and on him almost instantly. My dad is whispering "shoot him" in my ear. I freeze, forget to pull the trigger and he trots off.

2011, I get my second opportunity to shoot at a buck, this time with a bow. I miss low because I have no idea how much larger a buck is than a doe and he looks for all the world like he's 20 yards away when he's actually 30 or a little more.

I need to make it very clear that Pennsylvania is not a draw state. We get a buck tag every year and doe tags are easy to get. I have only missed one deer season in my life and that was the 2022 deer season and it was due to a serious injury that kept me from doing anything.

In 2020, 33 years after that first buck, a friend invited me to their place and pushed a buck in front of me. I used the exact same rifle I had that day. I was strangely calm and can remember thinking "1 2 3. 3 points. Legal buck. Ok. Vitals behind a tree. Wait. Safe off. Clear. Squeeze." And the deer didn't run 50 yards.

Last season, I had an 8 point (eastern count) come in during archery. I do remember having the presence of mind to talk to myself. "OK. Legal buck. Ok. KILL THIS DEER. Head behind a tree. DRAW!. Anchor. Solid. Ok. Wait. Wait. Vitals clear. Settle the pin. Hold low for the drop. And pull, pull, pull pullpullpull" I was NOT As calm and collected as I was with the rifle, but I had some ability and didn't completely black out.

What I failed to do was set my sights correctly for the range, so I shot a 20 yard pin for a 27 yard deer.

So, there. That's my story. A buck, getting a buck is so important because it's something I haven't done. Or maybe I feel like it's something I haven't completely earned having had the only one I've tagged basically served up on a platter.

I cannot really relate. You have hunted a lot more than me and I there is a lot that built to this. The closest I can come is I developed a studder for a short time in a high stress environment, such things are odd and complex. Below is just a bunch of ideas to help you find a creative solution that works for you.

If time allows, work on seeing bucks int he off season, make a point of getting out and getting into positions that would enable a kill. Make it is close to feeling like hunting as you can, but build confidence that you can put in the work and get on a buck.

This will not work for everyone, but try to make a mental commitment that you will not let an arrow fly unless you have taken your time on the shot process and done it right. It is better to let one walk, than to rush it and miss. One puts your psychologically in control, the other makes you controlled by the environment. The closest I can get to your situation is comparing to situations I have been in were serious bodily harm or death was a real possibility, I look at it this way, if I'm going to die, I'm going to at lease me in control of myself until the end.

You can also try to simplify your set up. This really depends on the person, but having to remember to dial a sight before shooting close in is not my cup of tea, I prefer fixed pins. Of course, you can still use the wrong pin, so not fool proof.

Practicing at speed and under time pressure with variable range targets could help. The time pressure can help the shot process become automatic. Have small penalties for missing time or target, something that sucks, but is not too bad. Say a round of push-ups to failure. This will create a snowball in that practice session as each failure will make subsequent failure more likely. After 3-5 failures in a row, end the timed session and get some controlled and successful shots off. Then repeat the next day. For some people the type of training could create problems, so you have to know yourself.

You can film shot sequences under pressure, then review them and work on anything that is not right.

A physical exercise induced increased heart rate does not have the same effect as a stress induced increased heart rate. Box breathing, voice control, and deep breathing will control heart rate under stress; those do nothing for a heart rate induced by running as the system driving the increased heart rate is different.

I have to agree with this

You are very likely thinking about killing the buck rather than executing the shot.

Please don’t be offended, but you are lacking the mental discipline to be present in the moment and do what you need to do. You are thinking of the outcome and not the process, and in doing so neglecting what matters most.

You’ve already given yourself the out in that “I suck and I’ll never be as good as them “. You’ve justified why it’s okay to let arrows go that aren’t perfect.

You say you can execute a shot sequence in demand, but is that a perfect shot sequence every time or is “good enough just good enough”.

In the end, how you approach this problem depends on your underlying philosophy of life. Do you believe in Determinism (we are just a complex machine that reacts to stimuli and have no control) or Free Will (we are in complete control at all times and outside factors have no influence), or something in between. I'm an inbetweener because both Free Will and Determinism fail to explain reality. In the setting of duress, Free Will predominately exists in the time before stimuli and after, but when under duress, our actions are largely determined and we have surprisingly little control. Put differently, no one rises to the occasion, we all sink to the level of our training and preparation. Our thought process and how we frame the situation is itself part of that preparation.

 

[TaperPin]

I *MAYBE* get one opportunity at a buck every year with a bow and I have yet to connect in any real way. I've missed clean, I've clipped hair, I've made brisket shots that earned me a fat smeared arrow and a broken heart and I've made decent, killing shots that I failed to recover due to poor fieldcraft.

What I'm trying to find or to figure out is a way to induce a level of stress similar to that of a deer coming into the red zone so that I can practice mentally coping with that stress and be better at making that shot when it does happen

I can relate - not archery, but there was a string of missed animals that were so very close, that it still hurts. I get so pumped when all the practice and prep is about to pay off, that small things can throw me off.

 

[TaperPin]

The solution may not be finding ways to make practice more stressful, but coping mechanisms to reduce known problems. Many of us are a little hyper and can be scatter brained, especially when it’s show time.

Using the wrong pin will eventually happen again if it’s happened once. You might double check yourself before each shot. When measuring a board I read fractions on the tape twice - once from the whole number below and once from the number above. It only takes a second, but cuts way down on simple mistakes. That works for me, but others don’t need to do that, and that’s ok.

Not everyone is good at judging distance - maybe you need a rangefinder to keep your eye calibrated - if it happened once it will happen again.

It also helps me to know deep down in my bones that I don’t have to kill every deer - it’s not the end of the world if the next decent buck gets by. You might pull back on the next buck you see and not shoot him on purpose - and the next, and the next. You’ll know after the fact if the deer was dead to rights. Rushing shots doesn’t help and it’s a good skill to be able to slow down if need be.

A lot of the posts on forums make hunting sound easy - it’s not, or anyone could go out without any experience and do it. We all have our gremlins that cause problems.

 

[TheViking]

I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but the mental preparedness is all about caring.

You put pressure on yourself to succeed in hunting, why not put pressure on yourself in practice?


That's what you need to learn, I mean none of it matters, doesn't matter if you need one more X or one more deer, you fail, sun will come up tomorrow. Miss and loose, or miss and go to the grocery store, ain't none of it life or death. One you are passionate about, the other you aren't.

You won't take your practice seriously until you care about it too.

Years ago, I was in the same boat. I usually got 1 opportunity, I started to practice a lot more and take it a lot more seriously because I didn't want to loose the one opportunity due to my shooting.

Hard to do when you suck at hunting.

I can execute my shot sequence on demand.

Where that begins to fall apart is when I shit my pants and forget my name when a buck shows up, and I really need to clarify that this is a problem with bucks and not nearly as much with does. I'm happy to explain why if you think it matters.

So, I can shoot to 80 reasonably well. Well enough to score on a medium 3D target at that range. A deer or larger, let's say.

I missed a buck at 27 this year and I've missed closer deer.

Billy Goat is 100% spot on. Look at your responses - "I suck at hunting" - that's a sign of mental weakness and lack of self confidence. I went through this with a now former hunting partner - negative mindset. It sounds whacky, but you need to envision making the shot on the animal. You need to mentally prepare for these situations. And like he said, you absolutely need to care. High heart rate shooting is about as close as you'll come to the real thing. Get your heart rate spiked (wind sprints, burpees, etc) and then go back to your bow, have a timer setup on your phone, give yourself 10 seconds, hit it, nock an arrow and make the shot before the timer goes off. Get really good at making the shot under pressure, out of breath, and your heart rate spiked. It's a game changer. When I do this and make a bad shot, I beat up on myself...and do it again and again until I started knocking them in the 10 ring at varying distances. This also give you self confidence. Not trying to be a dick, but missing a deer at 27 yards is unacceptable. I get it, shit happens, but when it's a common occurrence, you need to fix it. Work on mental toughness, do hard things, work on high heart rate/stressed shooting until you master it.

 

[NXTZ]

The way you describe your thought/shot process feels kinda chaotic and stressful (to me, not a dig at you). And like Jason Snyder said, it sounds like you‘re focused on the outcome (killing a buck) rather than the shot process.
To relate to this, the first time I came to full draw on a turkey, I botched a 24 yard chip shot on an unaware bird. I had been shooting obsessively/daily before the season, and thought my archery game was on point. At the critical moment, I was thinking about punching my first tag and NOT about my shot. That microsecond of loss of focus cost me a turkey, because I went full auto pilot and punched my trigger/yarded my bow off target.
*Point here is that all the shooting/practice I did had no effect on my performance at the critical moment-I lost my concentration at the moment it mattered most.

I ended up listening to Joel Turner and getting his Shot IQ program. That helped me, but it is only one option. It really sounds like you lose focus in the heat of the moment-you need to figure out how to remain present and aware of your shot process when your pin is on a buck.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Billy Goat is 100% spot on. Look at your responses - "I suck at hunting" - that's a sign of mental weakness and lack of self confidence.

I would argue that it's also a fairly accurate self assessment.

I spend late winter, spring and summer scouting and running cameras along with practicing with my chosen weapons to MAYBE get a single opportunity. When you take my history and that and stand that next to guys who are passing on deer that I'd be proud to hang on my wall, I objectively DO suck at hunting.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Billy Goat is 100% spot on. Look at your responses - "I suck at hunting" - that's a sign of mental weakness and lack of self confidence. I went through this with a now former hunting partner - negative mindset. It sounds whacky, but you need to envision making the shot on the animal. You need to mentally prepare for these situations. And like he said, you absolutely need to care. High heart rate shooting is about as close as you'll come to the real thing. Get your heart rate spiked (wind sprints, burpees, etc) and then go back to your bow, have a timer setup on your phone, give yourself 10 seconds, hit it, nock an arrow and make the shot before the timer goes off. Get really good at making the shot under pressure, out of breath, and your heart rate spiked. It's a game changer. When I do this and make a bad shot, I beat up on myself...and do it again and again until I started knocking them in the 10 ring at varying distances. This also give you self confidence. Not trying to be a dick, but missing a deer at 27 yards is unacceptable. I get it, shit happens, but when it's a common occurrence, you need to fix it. Work on mental toughness, do hard things, work on high heart rate/stressed shooting until you master it.

Speaking to the rest of this.

I do that and I'm pretty good at it. I could, while running the described drills, hit a deer in the vitals consistently at 40.

 

[Jpsmith1]

The way you describe your thought/shot process feels kinda chaotic and stressful (to me, not a dig at you). And like Jason Snyder said, it sounds like you‘re focused on the outcome (killing a buck) rather than the shot process.
To relate to this, the first time I came to full draw on a turkey, I botched a 24 yard chip shot on an unaware bird. I had been shooting obsessively/daily before the season, and thought my archery game was on point. At the critical moment, I was thinking about punching my first tag and NOT about my shot. That microsecond of loss of focus cost me a turkey, because I went full auto pilot and punched my trigger/yarded my bow off target.
*Point here is that all the shooting/practice I did had no effect on my performance at the critical moment-I lost my concentration at the moment it mattered most.

I ended up listening to Joel Turner and getting his Shot IQ program. That helped me, but it is only one option. It really sounds like you lose focus in the heat of the moment-you need to figure out how to remain present and aware of your shot process when your pin is on a buck.

I've been working on the Shot IQ program.
Yeah, it's chaotic and stressful. That's why I try to stick with short, simple and concise thoughts/commands.

 

[Jpsmith1]

You are very likely thinking about killing the buck rather than executing the shot.

Was it a perfect shot sequence on the deer? It wouldn’t seem that misjudging 20-27 yards would cause a miss? At least with my equipment and what I’m guessing the body size deer we are talking.

Please don’t be offended, but you are very likely lacking the mental discipline to be present in the moment and do what you need to do. You are thinking of the outcome and not the process, and in doing so neglecting what matters most.

You’ve already given yourself the out in that “I suck and I’ll never be as good as them “. You’ve justified why it’s okay to let arrows go that aren’t perfect.

You say you can execute a shot sequence in demand, but is that a perfect shot sequence every time or is “good enough just good enough”.

Also, if you simply cannot draw on a buck and let down because the shot isn’t perfect or within your wheelhouse at the time, then you need to recalibrate.

I want to specifically address the range issue.

I just duplicated the shot. I shot 27 yards, verified with the same rangefinder with my 20 yard sight mark.

The arrow impacted 7" below point of aim.

I am not offended by anything said in this conversation. I am trying to take everything said to heart and figure a way through this.

 

[Billy Goat]

I rarely miss, but I did miss this year. Shot was right, but I didn't read the situation correctly and paid for it.


#1 is get out of your head that you suck, going in with the idea that you will fail, is only going to lead to failure. You need to be confident.

Now, skipping over steps leads to misses too, but get your head right first.


Once I know I'm shooting an animal, I stop looking at the rack, focus on my shot, and exactly where I want that arrow to go. Don't aim at the deer, focus on the spot in the vitals you want to hit.

It will come together.


Shooting a bow is always about one shot, not the one previously, or the next. The one you are shooting right now. Focus on that shot.

 

[nphunter]

IDK why a person wants to shoot stressed. I never feel mentally stressed while hunting and even during close encounters with screaming bulls I’ve never felt overwhelmed. I always go in thinking I’m going to kill them am hyper focused on putting myself in the right place and doing the correct things to make that happen. Normally I’m so focused on the actually things leading up to the shot that the shots just come easy.

I’ve never taken a shot while totally rattled at an elk. I’ve done it a couple times on deer though and on an antelope. I get more rattled sitting a stand and watching them come in for a long time than actually hunting them. Even then I just focus on the shot and have had great success.

 

[Beendare]

Here's how I see it.....

We finally get a shot on a nice critter in the woods...and our mind goes haywire losing all focus. It's a common occurrence in hunting...and on the battlefield- thats where mental training comes in.

Jogging around working to get our heart rates up...but then taking the same mindless shot isn't going to help us on critters. We need a shot routine and plan of action training to fall back on.

High level soldiers, Pilots, etc- the mental mechanics are all similar to a hunt scenario- we fall back on our ingrained training in a pressure situation.

If you are doing anything different than the shot process you should have been practicing all year- thats where the problem lies.

Our mind can work against us to lose focus- Buck fever..

One example of losing focus; shooting unmarked 3D. full draw and you are thinking, "Maybe it's really 42y instead of 40" Thats bad. When doubt creeps in........ that takes away your step by shooting process checklist and actually focusing on the spot.

It's the little things that matter between the very successful and the fails. If you think about what happened before a bad shot----it's usually that you went mindless- autopilot without concentrating. Develop a quick preshot checklist you go over everytime. Focus on 1) a plan of action to get that shot, 2) the shot process.
This keeps your mind working the problem and it doesn't have time to wander.

The pre shot checklist typically works best if it's short and sweet- not 15 items long. Everyone has a flaw that plagues them...mine with my recurve is to release the tension in my Draw arm...and feel back tension. I get to my anchor quickly [without nuzzling in and fiddling around like some guys do] then preshot process [feel the back tension] focus on the spot- let er fly.

Everyone's process will be different...but the point is keeping your mind busy on the important stuff.
When I first started bowhunting, I shot a huge mule deer buck right between the horns....I didn't even remember drawing my bow......You know I had no shot process back then!


.

 

[Jpsmith1]

I rarely miss, but I did miss this year. Shot was right, but I didn't read the situation correctly and paid for it.


#1 is get out of your head that you suck, going in with the idea that you will fail, is only going to lead to failure. You need to be confident.

Now, skipping over steps leads to misses too, but get your head right first.


Once I know I'm shooting an animal, I stop looking at the rack, focus on my shot, and exactly where I want that arrow to go. Don't aim at the deer, focus on the spot in the vitals you want to hit.

It will come together.


Shooting a bow is always about one shot, not the one previously, or the next. The one you are shooting right now. Focus on that shot.

So, objectively, I'm not very good at hunting. Saying that "I suck" is a shorthand way to express that. I can't say I'm great at it. I can't even say I'm mediocre.

Skipping steps. I think that, in an after action analysis, that is what really hurt me this past season. On setting a stand every other time, I would range. Tree here, stump there, and dial my sight to cover the highest percentage trails a deer might show up on. On this set, I failed to do this because it was a tight area where I did not expect a shot beyond 20, I did not do this. Dialing to even a mid 20s mark could have made the difference. I gave that buck a shave. A little less drop and I pop the lungs or catch the heart and it's over.

I did exactly that. I saw that he was legal and shifted my focus to setting my feet, making an undetected draw and executing a shot. I picked my spot, even had the presence of mind to hold lower on the body to compensate for the drop.