Quilt pros cons

[Ruskin]

I've got a rev-x 0' RW degree coming that I plan to use w ti-goat ptarmigan and X-therm. I'm expecting night temps in the teens this season and I want to be warm. In a floorless so I'm hoping the bivy will keep it all clean and might help w drafts / managing temp variations.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

Would you guys use a bivy with a mummy bag as well in the same conditions? I guess my question is if you are having to use a bivy + quilt to achieve the same as a bag are you really saving that much?

 

[littlebuf]

Personally I don't think you need a bivy to achieve temp rating in a quilt, I never have any way. I think it's a preference thing really

 

[colonel00]

Personally, I would. Especially with a down bag. Bivys are so light that I just like the idea of having that added protection from water, dirt, mud, bugs and anything else that can can find its way into my bed.

 

[Browtine]

Would you guys use a bivy with a mummy bag as well in the same conditions? I guess my question is if you are having to use a bivy + quilt to achieve the same as a bag are you really saving that much?

I have not used a bivy with my sleeping bag, or quilt, in my enclosed floorless shelters (tipis or Supertarp w/annex) and never had a problem. I did just buy a ti-Goat Kestrel and it will get used under my simple tarp or the Supertarp w/o the annex to help with drafts and keeping moisture off the quilt. I bought the bivy mainly to use if we decide to spike out away from main camp with a simple tarp. My bivy plus 20 degree quilt comes in right around 31ozs so still very light. The bivy will also come in handy if you're in a tight floorless shelter (like 2 guys in the ST) where keeping off the walls is a problem.

I should add most of my experience is in fairly dry alpine Colorado.

 

[AK Troutbum]

One thing I like about using a bivy is that I don't have to bring the whole strap system for the quilt. The bivy keeps everything contained and zero issues with drafts.

 

[William Hanson (live2hunt)]

So there is no real rule just kind of preference thing?

 

[littlebuf]

So there is no real rule just kind of preference thing?

That's what I would say. Quilts are real scary until you use one. They get over thought a lot. Not once since I switched has the thought crossed my mind man a bag would be working better here or man a bivy would make this thing work. I just crawl in, fall asleep and stay warm. I may Try a bivy out but solely with the purpose of ditching a tent and having a tru spike set up

 

[colonel00]

Yep, I agree. As with just about everything, it is all about preference and what works for you in the situations you will be in. For instance, from my perspective, I am gearing up for the first trip this year which will be a caribou hunt. It will be rainy and probably buggy (mosquitoes and those little no-see-um farkers) along with a good chance of snow and muck. I will be taking my SL5 and probably going floorless so I like the protection a bivy will provide both while I am in it and also after I am out. However, for my mule deer hunt, if the weather isn't super wet, I may just roll without the bivy.

 

[Browtinemt]

Post up what you hear back from ti goat as I have a long wide 0° rev on the way.

Ti Goat's recommendation was that with a LW quilt and LW pad I would be on the maxed out end of the Kestrel and the Omni Raven would be a better fit. Hope that helps.

 

[muleman]

You might even find that the long wide pad fits tight in the Raven. Especially if it is a full rectangular pad. I really like Titanium Goat bivys but IMHO they are streamlined and there is no way you would get a long wide pad, quilt and body in a Kestrel.

If you want a "big" bivy get a long wide Katabatic gear bivy. Mine is huge. Easily fitting an Exped SynMat UL 9, long quilt and me in it with room to spare.

 

[colonel00]

I totally forgot to post these pictures. In this first one, the green bivy is the Omni Raven and the gray one is a Ptarmigan. Both contain either an XLite or XTherm in size Large. In this first photo the Raven has a 30* quilt and the Ptarmigan has a 10* quilt

Here you can see the difference in the foot boxes.

Another one that shows the length difference when they are aligned at the feet.

 

[Browtinemt]

Thanks fellas, that helps a lot. I'll check out the Katabatic gear bivy for sure.

 

[Browtinemt]

You might even find that the long wide pad fits tight in the Raven. Especially if it is a full rectangular pad. I really like Titanium Goat bivys but IMHO they are streamlined and there is no way you would get a long wide pad, quilt and body in a Kestrel.

If you want a "big" bivy get a long wide Katabatic gear bivy. Mine is huge. Easily fitting an Exped SynMat UL 9, long quilt and me in it with room to spare.

Great recommendation, thanks muleman

 

[eltaco]

I'm likely over thinking it, but I'm contemplating buying a new pad to use with my quilt.... having no quilt experience to this point, I'm assuming pad insulation is more important now.

I'm using an Exped Synmat UL7 LW. At only 6'-1" and 160lbs, this pad size might be overkill.

Can anyone recommend an xlite or xtherm for my size and quilt usage down to about 20F at the coldest? If I could comfortably get by with a regular pad size, I stand to save a fair bit of pack weight and volume. It's been rolling through my mind for a while and haven't come to a solid conclusion.

 

[alukban]

I have not seen this mentioned yet...

Does everyone put the pad IN the bivy? I do too but I am wondering why. I like to curl up and move around and I change positions all through the night. When the pad is in the bivy, it keeps me from curling up because the pad keeps the bivy from moving with your body - like a sleeping bag. Which brings be to the next point - if you use a very minimal quilt that is cut to fit the pad and attach to it, you cannot curl you legs and must sleep like a board. That's why I like generous quilts with real foot boxes but those are essentially sleeping bags that are slept in open. That's why I use sleeping bags like quilts unless it is super cold.

If I use a sleeping bag like a quilt in a bivy and put that whole shebang ON the pad, I get the best of everything. Either way (IN or ON), my regular size xtherm feels too narrow when I curl up and go over the sides, feeling like I am falling off the edge when I side-sleep. It leaves me wanting a wider pad because I felt "high centered". One night, I simply let out about 1/3 of the air. It allowed the xtherm to conform to my body more and it felt softer. It also removed the "high up" feeling and made it more comfortable in all positions including side sleeping. In temps going down to about 19°F, I have slept in an xtherm filled up only about 1/2 of the way with air and have been completely toasty because most of the R rating is from the reflective material that does not need the air. At the same time, I have frozen my azzz on an xtherm at only 28°F because I had set up in the dark and laid the thing down upside down - the reflective properties seem to be directional... "SHINY SIDE UP!"

When going to very lightweight quilts for slightly warmer temps, I am finding that they are TOO LIGHT in weight - not insulation. Because they are too light weight, they do not drape properly and I get pockets of big air that makes you feel cold. It is more of a chore to tuck edges in and for them to stay put. There's a strange comfort in a blanket/quilt/bag that has some weight to it and thus conforms to you automatically by its own weight alone. It is instinctive from childhood in wanting to feel swaddled for security and comfort. Unless a quilt has a good foot box and strategic cuts and tightening bungees, I find it hard to perfectly tuck in as easily as I can with just an opened up sleeping bag used as a quilt. I use a sleeping bag.

YMMV

 

[muleman]

I have not seen this mentioned yet...

Does everyone put the pad IN the bivy? I do too but I am wondering why. I like to curl up and move around and I change positions all through the night. When the pad is in the bivy, it keeps me from curling up because the pad keeps the bivy from moving with your body - like a sleeping bag. Which brings be to the next point - if you use a very minimal quilt that is cut to fit the pad and attach to it, you cannot curl you legs and must sleep like a board. That's why I like generous quilts with real foot boxes but those are essentially sleeping bags that are slept in open. That's why I use sleeping bags like quilts unless it is super cold.

If I use a sleeping bag like a quilt in a bivy and put that whole shebang ON the pad, I get the best of everything. Either way (IN or ON), for my regular size xtherm still feels too narrow when I curl up and go over the sides, feeling like I am falling off the edge when I side-sleep. It leaves me wanting a wider pad because I felt "high centered". One night, I simply let out about 1/3 of the air. It allowed the xtherm to conform to my body more and it felt softer. It also removed the "high up" feeling and made it more comfortable in all positions including side sleeping. In temps going down to about 19°F, I have slept in an xtherm filled up only about 1/2 of the way with air and have been completely toasty because most of the R rating is from the reflective material that does not need the air. At the same time, I have frozen my azzz on an xtherm at only 28°F because I had set up in the dark and laid the thing down upside down - the reflective properties seem to be directional... "SHINY SIDE UP!"

When going to very lightweight quilts for slightly warmer temps, I am finding that they are TOO LIGHT in weight - not insulation. Because they are too light weight, they do not drape properly and I get pockets of big air that makes you feel cold. It is more of a chore to tuck edges in and for them to stay put. There's a strange comfort in a blanket/quilt/bag that has some weight to it. It is instinctive from childhood in wanting to feel swaddled for security and comfort. Unless a quilt has a good foot box and strategic cuts and tightening bungees, I find it hard to perfectly tuck in as easily as I can with just an opened up sleeping bag used as a quilt. I use a sleeping bag.

YMMV

This is my third year using a quilt and when I use a bivy I put the pad inside. In my experience, to get the freedom of movement advantages of a quilt you need a generously sized bivy. Most of the ultra light bivys are cut tight and do not allow enough freedom of movement with a long wide rectangular pad inside. At 9oz the long wide Katabatic Gear Bristlecone Bivy is cavernous even with a rectangular 78" x 26" x 3.5" pad inside. Sometimes I wonder if it is too big, then I remind myself that I have total freedom of movement and no unwanted compression of down.

The quilt that I have the most nights in has a sewn footbox and I hate it. I much prefer the snap close footbox that allows me to decide if I want it open, closed, or snapped shut somewhere in between open and closed. My new HG quilt has excellent drape and the material has a most luxurious feeling against the skin.

When using a quilt, I haven't had the issues with draping or tucking that you have had. Before I had a quilt, I too did the sleeping bag opened up. I found that mummy bags didn't work well for me, as a quilt. The hood got in the way and the cut and taper was too tight to allow me to toss and turn. I do have a summer weight rectangular down bag that works well as a blanket/quilt because it has a very minimal taper and there is no hood to cover my face when opened up.

What quilts have you used?