Questions about hunting elk with muzzleloaders

[Finch]

I just got a heck of a deal on a CVA Optima V2 in thumbhole stock. My intentions were to use it here in Virginia (very liberal Muzzy laws) and also one day out west for elk. Well, I just learned that due to the high comb, you can't put open sights on this gun. I called CVA as well and they confirmed this. I've always been a fan of the thumbhole stock but this is pretty useless for my dream of hunting out west with it.

I see that not all of the states out west prohibit scopes on muzzy's, well maybe only Montana. As a non resident, would it take me several years of banking points before I could draw a muzzleloader hunt? I'm curious for not just Colorado but maybe Idaho, Wyoming, etc. Reason I ask is if it would take several years, I might just justify keeping this gun. Maybe I should sell it and go with something I know I can use...kind of bummed out right now.

 

[muleman]

In Utah you can use a 1x (no magnification) optic. I prefer a 2 MOA red dot when using a 1x optic for hunting.

 

[bz_711]

Donnie,
I only know a little about CO Muzzy. No scopes, no sabots, powder only (no pellets). But, there are some units with 100% or near 100% draw odds with no points. Also others that only take 1 or 2 points...and then other top units that can take forever.

What you will learn if you go archery this year, is that next year you can buy a Point for only $3 fee (plus $10 habitat, but recoup this if going out hunting again). I'm looking into muzzy more than ever as a way for some of our dad's to possibly have better chance at success at our bow camp. I am confident I could be 5 for 5 on elk with muzzleloader in my hand - as it was muzzy season when I had all these elk b/t 50-70 yds with bow in hand No question about it I would take CO Muzzy tag over any rifle tag/season.

 

[idelkslayer]

Idaho muzzleloader rules:

Muzzleloader Caliber Requirements:
In any hunt, including general any-weapon seasons and shortrange
hunts, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals
with any muzzleloading rifle or musket that is less than .45
caliber for deer, pronghorn, mountain lion or gray wolf; or is
less than .50 caliber for elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain
goat or black bear.

Muzzleloader Only Season

Any person hunting in a muzzleloader only season, including
controlled hunts, must have in their possession a license with
a muzzleloader permit validation. During a muzzleloader-only
season, it is illegal to pursue or kill a big game animal with
any firearm, muzzleloading pistol, or weapon other than a
muzzleloading rifle or musket. In addition, the muzzleloading
rifle or musket must be:
• Capable of being loaded only from the muzzle.
• Equipped with only open or peep sights. Scopes and any
electronics are prohibited. Except hunters with a visual
disability may apply for a permit to use nonmagnifying
scopes. (Applications are available at Fish and Game
offices.)
• Loaded only with loose black powder, loose Pyrodex, or
other loose synthetic black powder. Pelletized powders are
prohibited.
• Equipped with a single or double-barrel.
• Loaded with a projectile that is within .010 inch of the bore
diameter. Sabots are prohibited.
• Loaded with a patched round ball or conical non-jacketed
projectile comprised wholly of lead or lead alloy.
• Equipped only with a flint, percussion cap or musket cap.
209 primers are prohibited.
• Equipped with an ignition system in which any portion of
the cap is exposed or visible when the weapon is cocked
and ready to fire.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/rules/?getPage=299

 

[Travis Bertrand]

Finch, keep an eye out here for an article that might answer your questions.

Also I don't know go well your eyesight is but some states allow use of scopes with a dr note

 

[Bar]

Easy answer. Just shim the open sights up a little higher.

 

[TheHardWay]

New Mexico is a state that you can apply for to hunt elk with a ML. Pretty much everything there is fair game...scopes, sabots, pelletized powder. They don't do a preference point system, so everyone has a fair chance. Resident hunters and non-resident hunters who have booked with an outfitter have a better chance at drawing over the DIY guy.

However, today is the deadline to put in for tags, so if you go this route, you better get on it!

 

[Bar]

I never hunt anywhere but Colorado, but i've read that New Mexico is not very non resident friendly for getting tags.

 

[bbrown]

Why not replace the rear stock? They have them on the CVA website for less than $50 - just another option and you could use the thumbhole at home if you like it better.

Also Williams makes a peep site set that seems to be too tall for the regular stock so maybe it will work. I like it more on my optima than the sights that came on it.

 

[Finch]

Thanks for all the help fellas.

So if I went the shimming route, do you see any downsides with that? Is drilling/tapping for sights a pretty easy job for a reputable gunsmith? I looked on CVA's site but I didn't see stocks for the Optima, only the Optima Scout.

 

[Bar]

Your barrel should be drilled for sights. Isn't it? You just need the front sight raised. You can mount a peep sight in the scope mount holes.

 

[Finch]

Well, I don't know. I've read different things about the TH models having the front sight mount holes drilled from the factory. I was supposed to get the gun today but the mailman drove right on by. Should be here tomorrow and I'll know for sure.

 

[Bar]

I've never seen an Optima that wasn't drilled, but I suppose it's possible. The only one i've seen not drilled was the Accura MR. It has a high comb made for a scope.

 

[husky390]

You could troll craiglist, armslist, and other forums for a nice used T/C Hawken in .50 or .54. I love mine and bought it and a bunch of components for around $250.

 

[COLOelkman]

fyi, WY does not have a specific muzzy season. I'm not familiar with CVA's but you'd want to be sure it can shoot conicals as well as sabots. I know many TC's do not shoot conicals well so it would not be as versatile as a gun that can shoot both so a consideration if you end up wanting to hunt in different states where different regulations on sights and bullets, etc. As for sights, there's a ton of discussion on open muzzy sights so you might also check out Monster Muleys or Modern Muzzleloader forums. With open sights, if you want to be able to shoot longer distances, a rear peep sight is a good way to go. So my opinion would be that if you want to muzzy hunt in several states, you might want to have a gun capable of mounting a rear peep. Most guns will have the "v" sight as the rear sight but based on my experience, this would be a severe limitation on how accurate you would be able to shoot expecially at longer distances (past 100 yds.) Also note that some states such as CO have limitations on caliber size (.50 cal for elk in CO is minimum) so I think a .50 would also be more versatile for both deer and elk.

 

[Bar]

TC is the only one that has a conical problem. CVA's shoot them fine.

 

[Finch]

Well, I might not have to worry about this after all. It appears the gun is lost in the mail or somewhere. The seller dropped it off at Meijers (like a walmart he said-we don't have them here). Shipped it two day priority and that was the 17th. Tracking info has never been updated yet. Evidently it never left the store. Just my luck.

 

[Bar]

I'd call the store with the tracking number, and ask them where it is. Why didn't he drop it at a PO?

 

[Finch]

Not sure, he said he's shipped a lot of stuff from that store. He spoke with the store again today and they are 100% sure it was picked up by USPS. He then called USPS and they said it was confirmed as a pickup so it looks like USPS had/have it. USPS is "investigating." It wasn't insured either. I never requested that it be insured because I feel like that is the seller's responsibility. Maybe I'm wrong in that regard but I always insure when I ship to a buyer.

 

[Bar]

No surprise really with the PO. They're investigating a package for me too that they can't find.