Q&A Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm

[Rob5589]

I'm sure there are plenty of guys that get a zero, head out for the hunt, miss a shot or four, and say they just weren't on that day. Pack it up until next season and repeat, never knowing that it was entirely possible it was their sighting system. Maybe scope, maybe rings, maybe base. Forms test gun is literally glued together sans scope and rings. Remember that POS Zeiss he tested? Well, not such a POS after all as it ended up being the rings, not the optic. Whether you want to drop your stuff or not, at least make sure you have a solid and proven set up; base, rings, optic.

 

[Bluumoon]

Yep this now adds something to my setup I had not considered before. A proof test.... but do I really want to drop my rifle.... ugh. Guess I should if I really want to be able to have confidence in my setup if I have a drop in the field. In aerospace we typically do a 1.5x proof with 5 min hold for static loads.... this is not static though.... with so many different variables (angles, surface hardness, etc.) In reality, I do not think you could ever fully qualify a rifle system to the point that with 100% confidence it has still retained zero after a significant drop.

Unless.... maybe I should open up a shop with a vibration and shock table and then produce some sort of qualification program for rifles setups... send the rifle in, put it through the house of pain, if it passes -- you have a field qualified setup for XXX condition... something like that would be the only way.

I like this test.... I also think if you take these results incorrectly you are giving yourself a false sense of confidence. It does not matter what rifle and scope setup you have. I do not think anyone can operate under the assumption it has still retained zero unless you have done truly extensive testing with your own setup... Testing that would probably make your setup look like shit... so I doubt very few are actually going to do it.

I drop my Tikkas for fun. JK, sort of, I have started dropping them on padded surfaces prior to my shooting practice to make sure they don't lose zero. I have "known" scopes and rings, but still want to identify any weakness in my system, ie mounting issues or action bolt torque changing etc.

I'm not dropping my "nicer" hunting rifle, it has a known weak point in the Talley rings, I'll address that eventually.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus what rifles are you testing with.

Go to this sub forum and look in the pinned thread list. There is a thread explaining and standards.

The eval rifle is a Tikka T3 Tac 308 with bonded KRG Bravo chassis, and bonded pic rail.

Now that you've opened this can of worms for me, it's got me thinking if my rifle will even retain zero via the same test platform. Tested any Tikka T3x Superlites? If you have, and they failed don't tell me lol

Dozens. T3’s are generally extremely solid rifles. Free float the barrel until a dead cat can be thrown through the gap, degrease every screw and action thread, loctite and torque- 65 in-lbs is what I and everyone I know uses. That will make a very stable rifle for the vast majority of uses and users. However, some T3’s when dropped can show a shift of about .2-.3 mil (.5-1 MOA). Those get a spot bed at the lug and the tang. Then they do not shift.

 

[amassi]

Go to this sub forum and look in the pinned thread list. There is a thread explaining and standards.

The eval rifle is a Tikka T3 Tac 308 with bonded KRG Bravo chassis, and bonded pic rail.






Dozens. T3’s are generally extremely solid rifles. Free float the barrel until a dead cat can be thrown through the gap, degrease every screw and action thread, loctite and torque- 65 in-lbs is what I and everyone I know uses. That will make a very stable rifle for the vast majority of uses and users. However, some T3’s when dropped can show a shift of about .2-.3 mil (.5-1 MOA). Those get a spot bed at the lug and the tang. Then they do not shift.

I keep ripping plastic bottom metals over about 45 in pounds and have been using aluminum to get that higher torque. Are you getting 65”# on oem bottom metal?


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[ResearchinStuff]

I ripped through a plastic bottom metal at 65 in-lb too - the stupid conical bottoms of the action screws are fantastic for opening up a hole in the unsupported part of the bottom metal screw.

Pillar bedded my stocks to get metal on metal contact the whole way through and now they work great at 65, even the one that had previously ripped through

 

[Formidilosus]

I keep ripping plastic bottom metals over about 45 in pounds and have been using aluminum to get that higher torque. Are you getting 65”# on oem bottom metal?

I do. I haven’t pulled one through in probably 60-70 of them. I have heard of a couple pulling through. The main thing is to get it tight. I’m 55-65 in-lbs would be fine, 45in-lbs isn’t. A washer between the BM and action or between the BM and screw would work to fix it.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I do. I haven’t pulled one through in probably 60-70 of them. I have heard of a couple pulling through. The main thing is to get it tight. I’m 55-65 in-lbs would be fine, 45in-lbs isn’t. A washer between the BM and action or between the BM and screw would work to fix it.

Have you had issues at 45in/lbs on tikkas? I think I’m at 45, need to check my notes. I wouldn’t be opposed to 55in/lbs assuming it doesn’t mess with a good thing (rifle shooting well).

 

[Ucsdryder]

This whole discussion makes me wonder… if one scope fails are they all going to fail, or are scopes like cars? One guy has a truck that goes 300k miles without an issue and another guy has issues as soon as it leaves the dealers lot.

I’m still shooting the same rzr LHT. I haven’t zerod since 2019 when I bought it and I routinely shoot out to 600-1000 yards. No POI shifts at all. I have a hard time calling the guys on here liars that are saying they haven’t had issues for multiple years because I know my experience. Double digit animals killed from 50-835 in 3 years, 1000s of miles in a case, multiple accidental drops ect.

I 100% believe in forms tests and this isn’t a dig or a question about his test or expertise.

Just a thought that’s crossed my mind many times.

I did buy a NF because of forms tests for a new rifle build, but it was too heavy and I didn’t like the balance of the rifle with it on.

 

[Formidilosus]

Have you had issues at 45in/lbs on tikkas? I think I’m at 45, need to check my notes. I wouldn’t be opposed to 55in/lbs assuming it doesn’t mess with a good thing (rifle shooting well).

Yep. At 45 in-lbs the 3 or 4 we were using to check would all have zero shifts from drops. Having a zero shift from normal hunting and use didn’t happen often, but it did. This was started as an experiment because I wasn’t having any shifts ever, and a couple others I hunt/shoot with were. I had always taken Tikka’s apart and did my standard precheck- freefloated, degrease, loctite and torque tight.
The others were keeping them at factory stated torque, I think at the time was 40 or 45 in-lbs.
Long story shorter we started experimenting with it and all of them were less stable at 45 in-lbs. I was actually tightening way tighter than 65 in-lbs as I wasn’t using a torque wrench and just going by what felt right…. No issues. We went to 65 in-lbs and all the issues went away. After a bit it was discovered that some rifle- about 1-2 out of 10 could still have small shifts when dropped. Spot bedding the lug and tang solved that.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yep. At 45 in-lbs the 3 or 4 we were using to check would all have zero shifts from drops. Having a zero shift from normal hunting and use didn’t happen often, but it did. This was started as an experiment because I wasn’t having any shifts ever, and a couple others I hunt/shoot with were. I had always taken Tikka’s apart and did my standard precheck- freefloated, degrease, loctite and torque tight.
The others were keeping them at factory stated torque, I think at the time was 40 or 45 in-lbs.
Long story shorter we started experimenting with it and all of them were less stable at 45 in-lbs. I was actually tightening way tighter than 65 in-lbs as I wasn’t using a torque wrench and just going by what felt right…. No issues. We went to 65 in-lbs and all the issues went away. After a bit it was discovered that some rifle- about 1-2 out of 10 could still have small shifts when dropped. Spot bedding the lug and tang solved that.

Thank you. I think I’ll torque it down a little more and check my zero.

 

[eamyrick]

Thank you. I think I’ll torque it down a little more and check my zero.

It’s a case of one but I used a Torque driver at 65 inch lbs and it rendered a 308 T3x in a factory stock/bottom metal inoperable. 45 inch lbs immediately resolved the issue. I currently have a 30-06 T3x at 45 inch lbs (degreased action screws and paint pen witness marks) that was under my truck seat all season, spent a week in a horseback scabbard and still held perfect zero. (S&B scope)

 

[Formidilosus]

This whole discussion makes me wonder… if one scope fails are they all going to fail, or are scopes like cars? One guy has a truck that goes 300k miles without an issue and another guy has issues as soon as it leaves the dealers lot.

I would say it depends. I’m sure there are some scope designs that are right on the edge of working correctly, some of those models will seem to do well and some won’t. Some are so far below that line that they will have nearly a 100% failure rate. Some are built so they have as close to a 0% failure rate as possible. None have a 0% failure rate.

I define failure as an observable loss of zero, not returning to zero in dialing even once, or in not dialing consistently. I don’t care about illumination going out, or a grease spot inside the lens, etc. Those are annoyances, they aren’t catastrophic.

I’m still shooting the same rzr LHT. I haven’t zerod since 2019 when I bought it and I routinely shoot out to 600-1000 yards. No POI shifts at all. I have a hard time calling the guys on here liars that are saying they haven’t had issues for multiple years because I know my experience. Double digit animals killed from 50-835 in 3 years, 1000s of miles in a case, multiple accidental drops ect.

I 100% believe in forms tests and this isn’t a dig or a question about his test or expertise.

Just a thought that’s crossed my mind many times.

I believe you. Just as I know there are people with Leupold Vari-X 3’s that haven’t lost zero. I had several over the years that worked solidly- until they didn’t. Clearly there are some scopes/models that are just pure trash. But there are some that are in between, maybe you get one and for what you use it for it seems to work, or maybe you get one and it doesn’t. Maybe the one seemed to work fine until you started shooting more or asking more from it, etc.


The issue is that if a scope has low failure or problem rate, then the chances of me getting that scope are very low. However, if that model/line has a high failure rate, then the chances I get one are higher. One can go back and look at my posts over the years- I stated that Leupold, Vortex, Zeiss, Swarovski, etc. scopes have high rates of failure when actually used, shot, and tracked. What are the odds if that isn’t true that I get two Mark 5’s back to back that have shifting zeros? Or the VX3 here that behaved exactly as I said they do.

I think we’re seeing a new category of scopes that previously only some Sightrons and Weaver T series were in- scopes that track and adjust well, however are fragile and do not take bumps and field use well. My guess with seeing quite a few LHT’s is that they may be in this category generally, along with a lot of the scopes being used in PRS. The LHT is a PRS scope with all of the weight taken out of it- something has to give to achieve that.

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s a case of one but I used a Torque driver at 65 inch lbs and it rendered a 308 T3x in a factory stock/bottom metal inoperable.

What happened with it?

 

[Macintosh]

Im interested as well. tikka still states in their owners manual 45in/lb maximum for the plastic. (Actually 44 I think?? Memory is full!)

Ive got mine at 45 with a torque driver just cuz it was the “max allowed”. Have not been able to see a shift including with at least one good tumble. I’d be tempted to make sure the space under the botttom metal is well supported (ie skim bed it) on mine if I tightened it more. I always wondered why they use a martini bolt on those instead of a flat head, it seems asking for a problem. Even the replacements ive seen are wedge-shaped like that.

 

[Billy Goat]

I do t know how everyone else uses their stuff, but I hardly classify a drop from the waist onto a 1/2" pad abuse.

 

[eamyrick]

What happened with it?

Safety wouldn’t function correctly, accuracy issues, bolt closing issues. It’s a funny story because I sold it to our SWAT team Sgt after I left for another gig. One of the Sniper team leaders mounted the scope for him and used a 65 inch lb driver to snug it all up. Sgt called me mad as hell because I sold him a piece of junk. 45 inch lbs immediately resolved the issue.

 

[Formidilosus]

Safety wouldn’t function correctly, accuracy issues, bolt closing issues. It’s a funny story because I sold it to our SWAT team Sgt after I left for another gig. One of the Sniper team leaders mounted the scope for him and used a 65 inch lb driver to snug it all up. Sgt called me mad as hell because I sold him a piece of junk. 45 inch lbs immediately resolved the issue.

Sounds like a bedding issue bending/binding the action.

 

[Jimbee]

Great, now I’ll never be able to sell my Luepold scope…..

Safety wouldn’t function correctly, accuracy issues, bolt closing issues. It’s a funny story because I sold it to our SWAT team Sgt after I left for another gig. One of the Sniper team leaders mounted the scope for him and used a 65 inch lb driver to snug it all up. Sgt called me mad as hell because I sold him a piece of junk. 45 inch lbs immediately resolved the issue.

Action screws a hair too long?

 

[eamyrick]

Action screws a hair too long?

You know I didn’t get past diagnostics other than returning it to 45 inch lbs. It was a complete factory rifle that was very accurate and functioned perfectly for me for two seasons prior to selling it to build another rifle (which was dumb, I have multiple customs and would rather have two tikkas with two proven scopes and be done with it).

 

[Pilsner]

Overlook the drop portion- why are people not tracking their zero, or can not show their zero targets? “Here this target was initial, this target was a week later, this target 3 months later,”. Etc.

The Cold Bore Challenge is a perfect example of it. Look how many people questioned or found out their zero was off. And not being rude, look how many people missed at 400-450 yards. People can make whatever excuses they want, but people are missing a lot and part of that is their rifles aren’t zeroed or staying zeroed.

Now I can go back to blaming my equipment! Thank God - for a moment there I was forced to blame my own poor shooting.