Q&A Leupold Mark 4HD 2.5-10x42mm FFP TMR

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Bizarre results, but can't say I'm all that surprised. The SWFA 3-9 remains "the one" for this class of scope.

A friend in the field just sent an InReach message that his SWFA 3-9 failed. Zero was off and the reticle was not visible above 5x. First I've heard of one of those failing, but hell of a time while on a youth sheep hunt.

 

[Reburn]

While any scope can fail.
The biggest question is WHY use one of these.
What does it have that would make people want to use it so bad.
I dont see that it has anything that someone else doesnt do better.

 

[Formidilosus]

A friend in the field just sent an InReach message that his SWFA 3-9 failed. Zero was off and the reticle was not visible above 5x. First I've heard of one of those failing, but hell of a time while on a youth sheep hunt.

That’s sucks. Everything has a failure rate. You make the best choice you can, test/shoot it a bunch and go.

Apparently I am out in left field to most people- but legit field rifles should have a back up aiming system.

 

[atmat]

A friend in the field just sent an InReach message that his SWFA 3-9 failed. Zero was off and the reticle was not visible above 5x. First I've heard of one of those failing, but hell of a time while on a youth sheep hunt.

That’s awesome. I love seeing that these things can fail, despite how rarely it occurs.

 

[atmat]

That’s sucks. Everything has a failure rate. You make the best choice you can, test/shoot it a bunch and go.

Apparently I am out in left field to most people- but legit field rifles should have a back up aiming system.

How do you manage that with a Tikka?

 

[Formidilosus]

How do you manage that with a Tikka?

You don’t. Unless you get a T3 Arctic.

The reality is given what is available today with a T3, UM rings, etc- the scope is still the most fragile piece of equipment on the rifle. I beat the shit out of my scopes/rifles in practice, yet protect them as much as realistically possible on a hunt.

While failures as above are rare- if I took that as fact that the 3-9x hard broke, that’s the first out of well over 100 that I know of that has done so- with very high round counts and abusive use. One (maybe two) that I am aware of had a reticle rotate (still zeroed and still dialed correctly. So let’s call it 1/100 hard failure.
Now that sucks for the one, however the only other scopes that have as low of a failure rate in use that have seen with that amount of numbers and use is NF NXS’s and NX8 1-8’s, and SWFA fixed powers (I’ve seen one the turret broke off and one that leaked).


Now even with those numbers and reliability/durability record, and astronomical odds that one will fail on a sheep hunt…. It doesn’t help when you are the one it failed on the sheep hunt.

The answer is something like the T3x Arctic iron sight setup, or the sights one the Sako TRG 22/42, and/or the M24. But no one is making anything for centerfire modern bolt actions like that. Yet.

 

[Stocky]

While any scope can fail.
The biggest question is WHY use one of these.
What does it have that would make people want to use it so bad.
I dont see that it has anything that someone else doesnt do better.

Reasonable weight decent ffp reticle great ergonomics. Available

 

[atmat]

You don’t. Unless you get a T3 Arctic.

The reality is given what is available today with a T3, UM rings, etc- the scope is still the most fragile piece of equipment on the rifle. I beat the shit out of my scopes/rifles in practice, yet protect them as much as realistically possible on a hunt.

While failures as above are rare- if I took that as fact that the 3-9x hard broke, that’s the first out of well over 100 that I know of that has done so- with very high round counts and abusive use. One (maybe two) that I am aware of had a reticle rotate (still zeroed and still dialed correctly. So let’s call it 1/100 hard failure.
Now that sucks for the one, however the only other scopes that have as low of a failure rate in use that have seen with that amount of numbers and use is NF NXS’s and NX8 1-8’s, and SWFA fixed powers (I’ve seen one the turret broke off and one that leaked).


Now even with those numbers and reliability/durability record, and astronomical odds that one will fail on a sheep hunt…. It doesn’t help when you are the one it failed on the sheep hunt.

The answer is something like the T3x Arctic iron sight setup, or the sights one the Sako TRG 22/42, and/or the M24. But no one is making anything for centerfire modern bolt actions like that. Yet.

I think my only rebuttal is that would require people to also be practicing with irons (which almost no one does) and be proficient with them at distance needed for that hunt (which could be relatively long based on animal/terrain).

I would love a backup sight system. But for most places I hunt and most of the time, I’d probably just rather have a backup rifle in the truck than spend the rest of the hunt using irons I’m not awesome with. Obviously there are exceptions though.

 

[Formidilosus]

I think my only rebuttal is that would require people to also be practicing with irons (which almost no one does) and be proficient with them at distance needed for that hunt (which could be relatively long based on animal/terrain).

Yes of course. Some of the aperture sights can be used quite well at 300 to 400 yards with practice.

I would love a backup sight system. But for most places I hunt and most of the time, I’d probably just rather have a backup rifle in the truck than spend the rest of the hunt using irons I’m not awesome with. Obviously there are exceptions though.

For most uses that makes sense. A sheep/goat hunt or the like, is definitely where a back up aiming system would be, or could be the difference in a hunt.

 

[NSI]

I'd love a ring cap w/ mount interface for the UM Tikka rings

@Salmon River Solutions @Unknown Munitions

-J

 

[Formidilosus]

I'd love a ring cap w/ mount interface for the UM Tikka rings

@Salmon River Solutions @Unknown Munitions

-J

What are you describing?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

A sheep/goat hunt or the like, is definitely where a back up aiming system would be, or could be the difference in a hunt.

Which is where the dilemma lies of taking two guns when there is a partner along. A backup aiming system would be a much lighter choice than another 7-8 lb gun. As a predominantly solo hunter, I’d be into such a system. NXS and RS 1.2 are the only scopes that go with me. I know numerous people that still solo hunt here in AK with Leupolds and have had them go wrong, including misses on legal rams.

 

[NSI]

What are you describing?

Anything from a straight-up pic ring on the ring cap (Burris P.E.P.R) to a pic mounting interface (NightForce Multimount), but in a perfect world: a flexible standard mounting plate ecosystem (Reptilia/Geissele).

-J

 

[Formidilosus]

Anything from a straight-up pic ring on the ring cap (Burris P.E.P.R) to a pic mounting interface (NightForce Multimount), but in a perfect world: a flexible standard mounting plate ecosystem (Reptilia/Geissele).

-J

For?

 

[NSI]

For?

I kid, I kid ...



-J

 

[Reburn]

Reasonable weight decent ffp reticle great ergonomics. Available

After shooting the maven and the THLR the leupy reticle isnt good.

Ergonomics? Please expand.

Weight. Yea thats not an arguement unless the scope works as well as its competition which it doesnt appear to do.

Avaliable is about the only thing it has going for it that I can see.

 

[NSI]

After shooting the maven and the THLR the leupy reticle isnt good.

Ergonomics? Please expand.

Weight. Yea thats not an arguement unless the scope works as well as its competition which it doesnt appear to do.

Avaliable is about the only thing it has going for it that I can see.

Your point on reliability as table stakes is well taken. Please allow me to leave that aside, as the entire discussion is moot if the scope will not hold zero in practical use.

All of these are objectively nice things:
2.5-10x
21oz
simple mil-dot reticle with thick stadia lines and a center dot
locking elevation with intuitive return to zero
capped windage
low-profile turrets

None of them are necessary, and none of them make an unreliable scope worth buying - just like the Mark 5 before it. However, it's unhelpful to suggest that these features are not compelling in the context of a scope which does indeed pass drop tests some of the time. We don't have enough information yet to judge it. Does this scope present enough benefits to warrant gathering more information? Indisputably yes.

-J

 

[PaulDogs]

You don’t. Unless you get a T3 Arctic.

The reality is given what is available today with a T3, UM rings, etc- the scope is still the most fragile piece of equipment on the rifle. I beat the shit out of my scopes/rifles in practice, yet protect them as much as realistically possible on a hunt.

Would you ever consider putting something like the mbus pros for ARs on a bolt action with a pic rail? Not as a primary use. I just mean in an emergency backup type situation. Would that even work?

 

[Reburn]

it's unhelpful to suggest that these features are not compelling in the context of a scope which does indeed pass drop tests some of the time.

Thats probably why someone sent it in for testing. On paper it looks ok.
I wanted more then anyone to be suprised by Leupy.
I dont shoot great to start with I dont want to introduce "funkiness" into my rifles.

 

[KenLee]

Thats probably why someone sent it in for testing. On paper it looks ok.
I wanted more then anyone to be suprised by Leupy.
I dont shoot great to start with I dont want to introduce "funkiness" into my rifles.

Amen Brother, peach it!