Q&A for Minox ZP5 5-25x56mm THLR scope

[Dobermann]

Well, this thread veered off topic, but here's more on the reticle from the Reticle Design and Cold Weather Gear Podcast Thomas - THLR thread:

 

[Nine Banger]

Well, this thread veered off topic.

It definitely lost focus.

 

[Nine Banger]

I got home "too dark" to trust but verify.

Whoever worked on it scratched it and didn't tell anyone.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Both mine had the same notes on the sheet.

 

[id_jon]

View attachment 1056536

I got home "too dark" to trust but verify.

Whoever worked on it scratched it and didn't tell anyone.


View attachment 1056544

Looks like the second rev indicator is flipped too?

 

[Nine Banger]

Looks like the second rev indicator is flipped too?

I think that's what they call "reset to optical center"...that's the way it came out of the box the first time. I forgot how much I had to adjust it to hit at 100 but I left it on zero when I stuffed it in the box.

 

[Nine Banger]

Looks like the second rev indicator is flipped too?

So with a Tikka and UM highs you only get 12 mil elevation so the scope will spend its entire life in the second rev line.

 

[rbutcher1234]

So with a Tikka and UM highs you only get 12 mil elevation so the scope will spend its entire life in the second rev line.

Obviously not ideal, but a 6UM at my density altitude is 7.9mil to 1200 yds. You would still have cushion. Worse ballistic chamberings would be less forgiving, but even my 6BR is 10.8 mils to 1100.

I would obviously still prefer this not to be the case and live in closer to center of elevation travel just to reduce potential fringe errors.

In all likelihood though, your zero is below optical center. Think of how the two planes must intersect. The bore angles up so the bullet hits at 100 against gravity. Your scope is physically parallel. Therefore you must bring the crosshairs down in elevation to zero.

 

[Nine Banger]

Obviously not ideal, but a 6UM at my density altitude is 7.9mil to 1200 yds. You would still have cushion. Worse ballistic chamberings would be less forgiving, but even my 6BR is 10.8 mils to 1100.

With my barrel lengths and cartridge choices my "best" gun is going transonic around 1090 yards at 10 mil el. Not going to glue a pic rail on....

 

[rbutcher1234]

With my barrel lengths and cartridge choices my "best" gun is going transonic around 1090 yards at 10 mil el. Not going to glue a pic rail on....

What gun? My 16” 6BR is past 900 before transonic and that’s at exactly 10 mils. I’m mainly curious because I want to know the setup. The below isn’t really directed at you, but moreso anyone thinking of setting a gun up with a ZP5.

I have recently changed the way I look at this entire situation. I have stopped looking only at when bullets cross below their minimum expansion velocity, reduced the time I spend paying attention to trajectories, and started focusing primarily on the lesser of expansion velocity distance or my acceptable hit probability using WEZ (the lowest acceptable hit probability, for me, is always at a closer distance than the minimum expansion velocity)

For example, my 6BR above is 47% at 600 on a 12” target, but a 6UM is 78%. 66% increase in hits changing nothing in WEZ except the chambering. It comes with double the recoil, but the 6UM does not exceed my level of tolerance for competent field shooting.

Everyone is free to do as they wish, but the ZP5 is a big scope. It’s only worth the size and weight to me for further distances, which brings us to the most important problem: is your hit probability high enough at the distances where this scope shines? An SWFA 3-9 is much shorter, much lighter, and has a very functional reticle.

There are three ways to create higher hit probability:
1. Limit yourself to shooting closer targets
2. Shoot a more efficient chambering
3. Become better at shooting (correctly reading wind mainly)

Option 1, the ZP5 can quickly become suboptimal size and weight depending on the hunting environment and the imposed distance limitations. Option 3 you should be doing regardless of what scope is on your gun. Therefore, option 2 is really the tipping point.

At the distances where the ZP5 makes a lot of sense and is worth the size and weight, I only have acceptably high hit probabilities with cartridges that go transonic significantly further.

I will say there’s no free lunch, and there is certainly an intersection between recoil, downrange performance, and shootability that WEZ cannot model. I would encourage everyone to spend enough time shooting in field positions to where they can extrapolate the level of ft lbs and velocity with recoil that they can still competently shoot.

 

[Nine Banger]

What gun?

The longest, biggest gun I have assembled right now is an 18" 6 creed with 116TMK and I have around 100 Nosler 115 RDFs left.

The gun I intended to put this scope on is a 300 Fury with a 22" barrel and a "New Sporter" stock to take for brown bear that will do Quick Drop out to 800 yards with 195TMK and 200 Berger EH's. Same gun goes transonic at 1100 with 11.2 mil el. I took it apart to do something fickle and disjointed that doesn't even seem important any longer...I bet you know how that goes. I took my 6.5 PRC apart too, another good candidate for this scope, to make another standard action gun for testing 22 Creed.

 

[Gstew1930]

What gun? My 16” 6BR is past 900 before transonic and that’s at exactly 10 mils. I’m mainly curious because I want to know the setup. The below isn’t really directed at you, but moreso anyone thinking of setting a gun up with a ZP5.

I have recently changed the way I look at this entire situation. I have stopped looking only at when bullets cross below their minimum expansion velocity, reduced the time I spend paying attention to trajectories, and started focusing primarily on the lesser of expansion velocity distance or my acceptable hit probability using WEZ (the lowest acceptable hit probability, for me, is always at a closer distance than the minimum expansion velocity)

For example, my 6BR above is 47% at 600 on a 12” target, but a 6UM is 78%. 66% increase in hits changing nothing in WEZ except the chambering. It comes with double the recoil, but the 6UM does not exceed my level of tolerance for competent field shooting.

Everyone is free to do as they wish, but the ZP5 is a big scope. It’s only worth the size and weight to me for further distances, which brings us to the most important problem: is your hit probability high enough at the distances where this scope shines? An SWFA 3-9 is much shorter, much lighter, and has a very functional reticle.

There are three ways to create higher hit probability:
1. Limit yourself to shooting closer targets
2. Shoot a more efficient chambering
3. Become better at shooting (correctly reading wind mainly)

Option 1, the ZP5 can quickly become suboptimal size and weight depending on the hunting environment and the imposed distance limitations. Option 3 you should be doing regardless of what scope is on your gun. Therefore, option 2 is really the tipping point.

At the distances where the ZP5 makes a lot of sense and is worth the size and weight, I only have acceptably high hit probabilities with cartridges that go transonic significantly further.

I will say there’s no free lunch, and there is certainly an intersection between recoil, downrange performance, and shootability that WEZ cannot model. I would encourage everyone to spend enough time shooting in field positions to where they can extrapolate the level of ft lbs and velocity with recoil that they can still competently shoot.

Put it on the 223 & let er eat

 

[rbutcher1234]

The longest, biggest gun I have assembled right now is an 18" 6 creed with 116TMK and I have around 100 Nosler 115 RDFs left.

The gun I intended to put this scope on is a 300 Fury with a 22" barrel and a "New Sporter" stock to take for brown bear that will do Quick Drop out to 800 yards with 195TMK and 200 Berger EH's. Same gun goes transonic at 1100 with 11.2 mil el. I took it apart to do something fickle and disjointed that doesn't even seem important any longer...I bet you know how that goes. I took my 6.5 PRC apart too, another good candidate for this scope, to make another standard action gun for testing 22 Creed.

Totally get how that goes. I think I have at least two rifles that fit the “hey I just wanna try this one thing…. OOOOOO what’s that other shiney thing… wait now it’s just been disassembled or unzeroed for like two months” situation.


Edit: tested one of mine quickly this morning. Parallax appears to function correctly now. Will mount and go shoot at some point when I have time.

 

[Nine Banger]

Mine works.

I can focus into 50 yards now.

I'm up to the turrets on the front ring like a Maven.

Waiting for barrel to cool. I can smell the suppressor cover. I tend to lean into the shimmer on a Friday afternoon.

 

[G&W]

Mine was on the doorstep today. The parallax seems to check out ok and this reticle is just awesome. I will say that this one has the most crisp turrets out of my four ZP5’s, and I consider all of the others to be very good. Definitely worth the wait and frustration.

 

[Nine Banger]

In all likelihood though, your zero is below optical center.

You were right. I have 18.5 mils of elevation now whereas I had 12 mils of elevation before it went back to Germany.

 

[rbutcher1234]

You were right. I have 18.5 mils of elevation now whereas I had 12 mils of elevation before it went back to Germany.

Your 6 creed looks great, that gun is a perfect setup. I appreciate you also fielding my questions about the um rings as well, my other ZP5 is going on a 6UM with um highs per your recommendation.

 

[G&W]

And of course it’s raining today. Was looking forward to doing my typical tall target testing to check for any dialing discrepancies. Maybe tomorrow.

Wishing I would have purchased two of these with the THLR. First time I’ve had a FFP reticle that is fully usable across the full mag range.

 

[Nine Banger]

If you're looking at my post for UM rings mounting reference, I had to move this back 1/2" and then another 1/2" to shoot seated supported.

 

[wind gypsy]

Used mine in a match this weekend. I really like it and I now feel comfortable offloading the bushy xrs3 it replaced. Glass is pretty great.