Puffy-over or under shell?

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I used to do some alpine climbing BITD and the standard practice was you'd throw your puffy/insulation layer on over your shell once you got to the belay. This system would use your body heat to dry out your shell and additional layers while you were stationary. When it was time to climb again, you'd simply remove the insulation layer and get moving.

Dry the shell? Are we all talking about a hard shell layer or are some of you talking about soft shells (something I rarely use hunting)?

 

[Poser]

Dry the shell? Are we all talking about a hard shell layer or are some of you talking about soft shells (something I rarely use hunting)?

Whatever type of shell you were wearing depending on conditions. A lot of times it was a hard shell of some type if we were climbing ice. Its the same idea as a guys getting into their sleeping bags with wet gear on to dry it out.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Whatever type of shell you were wearing depending on conditions. A lot of times it was a hard shell of some type if we were climbing ice. Its the same idea as a guys getting into their sleeping bags with wet gear on to dry it out.

Except the hard shell doesn't adsorb moisture other than fabric wet out, I'd rather keep my insulation layer dry than trying to drive surface moisture off a hard shell.

If a soft shell sure, makes more sense.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Wouldn’t it block the wind just as well under the puffy?

In theory wind blocker layer breathes better closer to skin.

Lately my puffy and wind blocker fabric are so ultra thin it’s a toss up… x1 and ghost whisper

 

[tim tarras]

Insulating layer on the inside.

 

[Macintosh]

Both, depending. I always buy puffies sized to go over all other layers—imo its simply wrong approach to get a puffy sized so small that you cant pull it on over all other layers—thats the entire point of a puffy to me. But I also frequently will wear one under a shell. Depends on situation.
If Im adding a puffy to stay warm while stopped during stop-and-go activities, then it almost always goes outside.
If Im using a lighter puffy as a packable midlayer for cold conditions and I’ll be wearing it for longer periods of time, then often under.

Yes, it insulates better when under, but it still insulates well when over. My decision is a balance of performance and convenience depending on conditions and situation.

 

[doc holiday13]

this has been covered a few times, but it would depend on what I'm doing. If I'm in a tree stand, i'll have shell over puffy. If I'm hiking and its just too cold to hike in a thin shirt, I'd probably put the puffy over the shell(unless its raining). Idea behind that would be that your rain jacket is designed to breath so it would allow the sweat to pull through and out of the jacket and the puffy thickness is blocking the majority of cold without needing to have your sweat transport through the loft of the puffy

 

[199p]

puffy needs to be close to the body to hold the heat in. base layer then puffer

 

[ThorM465]

I'm a big believer in layering and adjusting it regularly. When I was younger I was very heat tolerant and cold intolerant. My system is this:
Base Layer (short or long sleeve merino shirt base layer)
Qtr Zip Fleece (FL Klamath)
Vest
Puffy
Shell (FL Uncompahgre Foundry heavy / I don't have a got to light shell at the moment)

I'll adjust for the conditions accordingly, but that's the base package.

 

[Blurry1]

as Poser has stated it depends, but often times when moving from active to inactive on a regular basis, slapping the puffy over your shell is far more efficient. You don’t get flash cooling from trying to change out with heavy winds and snow and it is plenty effective. Just look at what backcountry skiers, Alpine climbers, etc. who work hard in cold wet Alpine environments do.. That said if you’re gonna be stationary for a long period of time, I’d certainly put the shell over the insulating layer.

 

[MThoundhunter]

Under.

 

[elsb0048]

Same as @Poser :
Primarily over like a belay jacket for alpine, rarely under. Shell and puffy sized to go either way.

I've wetted out down puffies by going under the shell and having condensation still present from previous exertion.

For me a 'puffy' is almost exclusively a static layer. For still hunting I would wear a heavier midlayer (active insulation) than for true aerobic exertion but also still have a static puffy for when I might actually sit. I separate true 'static' puffys from varying weights of 'active insulation ' some of which also have a little puff

 

[elsb0048]

Except the hard shell doesn't adsorb moisture other than fabric wet out, I'd rather keep my insulation layer dry than trying to drive surface moisture off a hard shell.

If a soft shell sure, makes more sense.

Isn't the fabric wetting out the same way any other piece absorbs moisture?

One problem that may occur with puffy under shell is that you get a little sweaty under your shell, stop, put puffy on, puffy gets wet from the sweat you trapped under your shell.
This is why many alpinists do puffy over.

I find it's similarly useful for many spot & stalk situations. You hike to glassing point and sweat in steep country. Shell is on because it's windy. You stop to glass and toss puff over top for duration of glassing. Get up to move to next glassing spot and stuff puff in pack. At next glassing spot pull puffy back out. No layers change other than puff. For puffy under you have to move 2x as many jackets, triple annoying with a bino harness or blaze vest added to the mix.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Isn't the fabric wetting out the same way any other piece absorbs moisture?

One problem that may occur with puffy under shell is that you get a little sweaty under your shell, stop, put puffy on, puffy gets wet from the sweat you trapped under your shell.
This is why many alpinists do puffy over.

I find it's similarly useful for many spot & stalk situations. You hike to glassing point and sweat in steep country. Shell is on because it's windy. You stop to glass and toss puff over top for duration of glassing. Get up to move to next glassing spot and stuff puff in pack. At next glassing spot pull puffy back out. No layers change other than puff. For puffy under you have to move 2x as many jackets, triple annoying with a bino harness or blaze vest added to the mix.

Surface fabric wet is different than an entire garment saturated. Again assuming we are talking hard shells when we say shell.

I guess a difference in the way I layer I RARELY ever use a hard shell, it would need to be raining or biting cold wind before I would break one out. So in those circumstances I would want the shell over.

You are routinely wearing a hard shell hunting?

 

[elsb0048]

Surface fabric wet is different than an entire garment saturated. Again assuming we are talking hard shells when we say shell.

I guess I'm not sure what else there is in a hard shell to saturate other than the surface fabric.

I guess a difference in the way I layer I RARELY ever use a hard shell, it would need to be raining or biting cold wind before I would break one out. So in those circumstances I would want the shell over.

You are routinely wearing a hard shell hunting?

Routinely? No

Same as you I bust out the hard shell for certain wind or rain scenarios. I feel my static puffy is similarly warm over and under my hard shell so when it's windy enough to wear a hard shell I still often (although not always) do puffy over.

If it's rainy enough to wear a hard shell a lot then it's also probably wet enough that I'm unlikely to spend much time static with no additional shelter. I'm either going to be mostly still hunting (which I count as active) or glassing under a tarp. Or tucking my tail between my legs waiting out the storm back at camp lol

I do also use softshells occasionally, mostly on day hunts in blustery, mostly dry conditions, near freezing. On those days I do puffy over.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I guess I'm not sure what else there is in a hard shell to saturate other than the surface fabric.

Agreed so the idea of baking out the moisture wearing the puffy over it seemed odd to me.

I totally get tossing a puffy over layers for convenience, I do it routinely when glassing. Just if I am in a situation I am actually wearing a hard shell and need insulation to hunker down (not active or really damn cold) it seems like I would wear the puffy under.

 

[elsb0048]

Agreed so the idea of baking out the moisture wearing the puffy over it seemed odd to me.

I think he probably mostly meant moisture in base and midlayer.

If you've actually wetted your shell out almost certainly what's under it is wet too and you wouldn't want to slap a puffy into that soggy mess either. I feel like once I wet a shell out it's most often wet from inside and outside both.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I think he probably mostly meant moisture in base and midlayer.

If you've actually wetted your shell out almost certainly what's under it is wet too and you wouldn't want to slap a puffy into that soggy mess either. I feel like once I wet a shell out it's most often wet from inside and outside both.

I’d think baking those under layers wise certainly, just seems slow trying to do it through the hard shell. But I don’t find myself in that situation typically so I’ll defer at this point.

 

[elsb0048]

I’d think baking those under layers wise certainly, just seems slow trying to do it through the hard shell. But I don’t find myself in that situation typically so I’ll defer at this point.

Definitely nuance to it.

Ato your point as well there's definitely times for puffy under