Private Pilot License advice and info

[tmorty]

Very interested in getting into aviation, private license to start and learn and then possibly even shift gears into commercial. Who here has their private? And have you found any ways to make your private license pay you? Any recommendations for making the whole thing cost effective?

 

[z987k]

Any compensation whatsoever, and the FAA definition of compensation is very broad to even include flight time, with only a private is illegal.
Also a private without an instrument is basically a form of legal suicide.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

What they said above. Your private license would only ever “pay” legally if you somehow spend more money in traveling by airline or car than a hop in a general aviation airplane, which is rare as hell. The only time flying is faster is if the road to get there is very very windy, and the flight path is very very straight. In order to make money as a pilot of any amount you need your commercial license with instrument rating. Non instrument you cannot fly for hire greater than 50nm from your home base or at night.
That’s the boring piss in your cheerios answer.

Here’s the milk in your cheerios; flying is an amazing thing and many people learn a ton about themselves when they are a student pilot that there are few other ways to learn. Being able to rent a plane, land in a small town and borrow an old sedan with maybe a working heater to go buy ice cream is a seriously unique and fun experience. It’s extremely expensive but very rewarding if you go into it with research and a large dose of humble pie.

Edit:
What are your goals with flying? Want some sunsets with the girl and no real long distance? Want to access the backcountry? Flying city to city?

 

[Tahoe1305]

So as someone who has been passionate about flying for a few decades. I’ll say some of what’s above is valid.

Need a commercial ticket to make money legally. Can split costs without but the faa has that clearly outlined.

You will also likely never save money flying vs driving. It’s way faster and cool. That’s it.

I own a plane and fly about 200mph most places I go (as a crow flies….so about divide by 4 over driving) but financially it is 8x as much at least every single time. But I think it’s fun. Over commercial travel I typically break even with my plane full (which it normally is…plus a dog). I can beat most commercial travel itineraries door to door.

But I’ve been doing this most of my life. And the average private pilot will assume a lot of risk doing that.

I agree an instrument rating is important, but maybe not as much as some would think.

Where I live instruments equals ice. Ice equals problems. I have to be a fair weather pilot (at least in my plane) in the winter. So I don’t fly much instruments (but always nice to know I’m legal if I need them).

The path to airlines going the route you describe is private license . Then commercial as an instructor for a small FBO making hardly any money but flying for free. Build time then get an ATP and meet minimum airline requirements. It will take a while. But based on recent pay increases for the next 5-10 years will be worth the effort.

 

[HoneyDew]

Let me preface this by saying I am NOT a pilot but I did recently consider going down that path. I spoke to some very experienced guys in the private and commercial industry. Not sure of your age but something that stood out to me was the annual physical required to get/keep your commercial license. As I approach my late 30s I decided commercial wasn’t really an option for me. Both because of the physical and time needed to build enough seniority to get the schedule/pay that made sense for my family and situation. If I was in my 20s I would have hopped on it. Just my input from a guy who doesn’t currently fly.

 

[z987k]

Let me preface this by saying I am NOT a pilot but I did recently consider going down that path. I spoke to some very experienced guys in the private and commercial industry. Not sure of your age but something that stood out to me was the annual physical required to get/keep your commercial license. As I approach my late 30s I decided commercial wasn’t really an option for me. Both because of the physical and time needed to build enough seniority to get the schedule/pay that made sense for my family and situation. If I was in my 20s I would have hopped on it. Just my input from a guy who doesn’t currently fly.

If you can't maintain a FAA class 2 physical, you are in incredibly bad shape health wise and probably can't do much of anything. Airlines is class 1 and every 6 months after 40. It's also not hard to keep unless you have a very unhealthy lifestyle or really unlucky genetics. Either of which should be addressed regardless.

 

[z987k]

But I’ve been doing this most of my life. And the average private pilot will assume a lot of risk doing that.

I agree an instrument rating is important, but maybe not as much as some would think.

The instrument rating isn't so much for IFR flying. It's for the VFR into IMC virtually everyone eventually gets themselves into.
I mean most night flying, which private with no instrument is allowed to do, is flying with reference only to instruments, even if it's clear skies. Let alone the IIMC.

 

[HoneyDew]

If you can't maintain a FAA class 2 physical, you are in incredibly bad shape health wise and probably can't do much of anything. Airlines is class 1 and every 6 months after 40. It's also not hard to keep unless you have a very unhealthy lifestyle or really unlucky genetics. Either of which should be addressed regardless.

Again just going off the information from guys I received in the industry. They HIGHLY recommended anyone looking to go commercial to see a doctor for a “consult” on IF you’d pass the class 1 requirements. That way if something was off it wouldn’t be on the official paperwork. My physical health is fine but it was more the genetic side that’s an unknown (they mentioned various heart, bp, etc). This would have been a career switch on my part from a job I am good at and do quite well in. Only issue is I don’t enjoy it. Ultimately the seniority based structure coupled with the potential years I’d have left in the industry before my health could potentially play a role ending a career without my control helped me make my decision. But again, I don’t know the OP and his situation just sharing some additional info.

 

[Touchdown88]

I worked with several Vets who used their GI bill to pay for their flight school through a local university. All of them joined a local club to build hours. One of them joined the civil air patrol to get his cost per hour down but he had to pay out of pocket for his instructor rating, $25k. Right now, 2 of the 3 are flying as their day job and all of them are instructor rated.

 

[Tahoe1305]

The instrument rating isn't so much for IFR flying. It's for the VFR into IMC virtually everyone eventually gets themselves into.
I mean most night flying, which private with no instrument is allowed to do, is flying with reference only to instruments, even if it's clear skies. Let alone the IIMC.

This is a good point on the safety aspect. I’ve never not been instrument rated so always had that safety net and never thought about it from the perspective of not having it. It would suck being that limited.

 

[gbflyer]

If I’m not mistaken, you may be able to become a commercial drone operator with a private pilot license but that would be a long, expensive, round about way to get there. Haha. Folks with a need to travel for business purposes can utilize a private pilots license and GA aircraft. There are tax benefits to leasing, owning, and renting.

There is nothing cost effective about recreational general aviation. It’s always been expensive, now it’s out of reach for most people. Unless you have a good amount of disposable income and a passion for flying, don’t do it. If you do, have a ball and stay current. A young person on track to become a professional pilot is a different matter.

I have been flying GA for 35 years. I have never been a professional. I’ve had traveling machines and load haulers. Within the last 10 years I’ve gone strictly light sport with an experimental amateur-built manufactured by yours truly. It’s the only way I can convince myself that I can “afford” to fly.

 

[gbflyer]

This is a good point on the safety aspect. I’ve never not been instrument rated so always had that safety net and never thought about it from the perspective of not having it. It would suck being that limited.

There is nothing more dangerous than a IFR rated pilot that isn’t current and doesn’t know he/she is dangerous.

 

[Tahoe1305]

There is nothing more dangerous than a IFR rated pilot that isn’t current and doesn’t know he/she is dangerous.

Agree. Have to stay current and realistically (at least IMO) the faa min requirements likely aren’t enough to be actually proficient.

 

[IBen]

I am getting my license while working my regular job. I do 6-7 hours per month. Take a discovery flight. Hourly rates are $200-225 where I live. A good school should have you with your ppl around 50 hours but if you plan to continue on the path of 250 for cpl it doesn't matter. You dont need to go all in like some people do after 3 years you’ll have commercial then instruct and work part time. I’ve heard of people getting hired to sit second seat for small private jet operations around 350 hours.

 

[Mt Al]

Within the last 10 years I’ve gone strictly light sport with an experimental amateur-built manufactured by yours truly. It’s the only way I can convince myself that I can “afford” to fly.

What did you build? I'm blown away by people who have the dedication to complete a homebuilt airplane.


My 2 cents:
I got a private license years ago and absolutely loved it. Joined a flying club and at the time it wasn't nearly as expensive even given inflation, etc..

My decision to stop was based on finances and time. Flying the minimum to keep current and pass BFRs wasn't safe for me, at all. Then I looked at what I had to say "no" to when saying "yes" to aviation and it simply wasn't worth it for me, not even close since it wouldn't be my job and don't have enough extra cash to make it safe, legal and fun. For others it's totally worth it and costs can come down by joining a club, partnerships or a homebuilt. If I ever the time and money, I back in!

 

[Marshfly]

I got my private about 15 years ago. Never went for the IFR cert. Traveled all over the country with my family. My work situation was such that we could always leave a day early or later to avoid weather. Clouds don't just appear from nowhere. They happen due to specific conditions. And plenty of pilots fly thousands of hours in planes that aren't remotely IFR capable.

If you are trying to travel on a schedule you 100% need your IFR cert and your airplane needs to be constantly maintained. Stuff breaks when you least expect it. I had a vacuum pump fail in the air once. Attitude Indicator went wonky. It happens.

I sold the plane (Cherokee 6-300) when we started traveling with the RV much more. Now that we've settled in Montana I'm looking to get another plane for exploring up here and getting into good fishing and hunting spots. Can't wait to make it happen.

Your comment about making your PPL pay you hints that doing this might be on the edge of affordability for you. That's a very bad way to get started. 4 and eventually 5 figure repairs come up. They just do. If your finances can't handle that, regular plane ownership will not be for you.

All that said, take a flight with a local instructor. You'll know pretty quickly if it's something you want to do. But you need a reason to fly. Just punching holes in the sky gets old pretty quickly IMHO.

 

[gbflyer]

What did you build? I'm blown away by people who have the dedication to complete a homebuilt airplane.


My 2 cents:
I got a private license years ago and absolutely loved it. Joined a flying club and at the time it wasn't nearly as expensive even given inflation, etc..

My decision to stop was based on finances and time. Flying the minimum to keep current and pass BFRs wasn't safe for me, at all. Then I looked at what I had to say "no" to when saying "yes" to aviation and it simply wasn't worth it for me, not even close since it wouldn't be my job and don't have enough extra cash to make it safe, legal and fun. For others it's totally worth it and costs can come down by joining a club, partnerships or a homebuilt. If I ever the time and money, I back in!

We have built 2 Rans machines over the years. A S7S and a S20. Quick builds both, still 600 man hours or more to complete unless done by a professional.

I’m coming up on the same scenario you talk about. I don’t fly enough to be confident or competent. I’ve been around it long enough to have too many friends that aren’t here anymore because of aviation.

 

[gbflyer]

Agree. Have to stay current and realistically (at least IMO) the faa min requirements likely aren’t enough to be actually proficient.

One of my neighbors is a meat wagon pilot for one of the various providers of that service in the NW and Alaska. Been doing it for years, thousands of hours of flight time. He flies a Lear, pilot/copilot aircraft. After his week off he sits right seat for the first couple flights to come back up to speed. It’s a highly perishable skill.

 

[z987k]

There is nothing more dangerous than a IFR rated pilot that isn’t current and doesn’t know he/she is dangerous.

Fantastic example is that youtuber that killed themselves and their dad couple months back. If you look at previous footage they posted, that person was hopelessly lost on about every flight. What happened was a forgone conclusion when they were allowed out on their own. The videos are almost a comedy if the outcome wasn't so tragic.
Their flight instructor and DPE did them an extreme disservice by allowing that to pass.

 

[MTN BUM]

Again just going off the information from guys I received in the industry. They HIGHLY recommended anyone looking to go commercial to see a doctor for a “consult” on IF you’d pass the class 1 requirements. That way if something was off it wouldn’t be on the official paperwork. My physical health is fine but it was more the genetic side that’s an unknown (they mentioned various heart, bp, etc). This would have been a career switch on my part from a job I am good at and do quite well in. Only issue is I don’t enjoy it. Ultimately the seniority based structure coupled with the potential years I’d have left in the industry before my health could potentially play a role ending a career without my control helped me make my decision. But again, I don’t know the OP and his situation just sharing some additional info.

Second this. Take the "practice" eval and fix what needs fixed. If you fail your official on first attempt you are in for a long expensive ride to get approved.