Precision Cut Archery Paper Recommendations

[doc holiday13]

Have you tried lab radar? I would love to get one someday, seems easy for tapes with it

HAHAHAHA LabRadar.. Stick with Garmin

So like a 40-60-80 won't work? I don't really have anywhere to shoot beyond that and I returned my chrono as it gave me ridiculously different readings and that was with the Garmin chrono.

yeah that would work I actually have space to go out to 140 yards but 90 is good enough

 

[Jon_G]

HAHAHAHA LabRadar.. Stick with Garmin



yeah that would work I actually have space to go out to 140 yards but 90 is good enough

Did you read above about my Garmin experience? Also, on archery talk in the same thread there was like 4 people with innacurate readings from that Garmin. Also Dan from Elk shape had lots of trouble when he first set it up. I don't plan on using another one anymore just to get a sight tape.

 

[nubraskan]

Once you know how to set it up it's not difficult to use the garmin. For my downrange shots, I set an old target a yard or so in front of the garmin for some extra insurance. I end up basically aiming right at it at 90 yards, which is unnerving if you don't have something protecting it or you're not 100% confident in your shot.

 

[Jon_G]

Once you know how to set it up it's not difficult to use the garmin. For my downrange shots, I set an old target a yard or so in front of the garmin for some extra insurance. I end up basically aiming right at it at 90 yards, which is unnerving if you don't have something protecting it or you're not 100% confident in your shot.

Yeah when I set it that close to my target at 10 yards it gave me like a 25 fps decrease in speed. You're telling me you really drop 25fps in about 8-9 yards? I don't think so. I pass on that thing. There was a guy who was shooting like 40 fps slower than what he was 100% sure was his actual speed. I'll pass. I'm glad it's working for you though.

 

[nubraskan]

Yeah when I set it that close to my target at 10 yards it gave me like a 25 fps decrease in speed. You're telling me you really drop 25fps in about 8-9 yards? I don't think so. I pass on that thing. There was a guy who was shooting like 40 fps slower than what he was 100% sure was his actual speed. I'll pass. I'm glad it's working for you though.

I hadn't read your post, I thought it was just related to not getting readings on the downrange shots. Obviously it looks like you must've gotten a bad unit or something which doesn't inspire confidence...I haven't had that experience but I totally understand where you're coming from.

 

[jbelz]

If you're using any sort of chronograph to build a sight tape you're already at a disadvantage.

 

[Jon_G]

If you're using any sort of chronograph to build a sight tape you're already at a disadvantage.

How? What's more accurate then?

 

[jbelz]

How? What's more accurate then?

@dkime just posted a thread that explains everything better than I can. But it's the system I use.

 

[dkime]

How? What's more accurate then?

Chronograph based softwares are useless because I can make a 220gr round nose and a 220gr sierra matchking leave a barrel at the same velocity. I can also make them have the same zero, and the same amount of drop at a known range just by varying the height overbore of the optic. Same thing applies to archery. Archery softwares should require 3 points on a curve to create an arc, not 2.

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[Jon_G]

Chronograph based softwares are useless because I can make a 220gr round nose and a 220gr sierra matchking leave a barrel at the same velocity. I can also make them have the same zero, and the same amount of drop at a known range just by varying the height overbore of the optic. Same thing applies to archery. Archery softwares should require 3 points on a curve to create an arc, not 2.


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Reading your post now. Thanks for the information it's great

 

[dkime]

Reading your post now. Thanks for the information it's great

Added a picture above to better illustrate


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[Jon_G]

Chronograph based softwares are useless because I can make a 220gr round nose and a 220gr sierra matchking leave a barrel at the same velocity. I can also make them have the same zero, and the same amount of drop at a known range just by varying the height overbore of the optic. Same thing applies to archery. Archery softwares should require 3 points on a curve to create an arc, not 2.

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Do you know if precision cut gives you the ability to input 3 instead of 2?

 

[dkime]

Do you know if precision cut gives you the ability to input 3 instead of 2?

I have zero familiarity with the software because as illustrated in the other post, I have my system figured out. Maybe a guy could take my system and apply it to precision cut, I’m not sure


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[nubraskan]

Chronograph based softwares are useless because I can make a 220gr round nose and a 220gr sierra matchking leave a barrel at the same velocity. I can also make them have the same zero, and the same amount of drop at a known range just by varying the height overbore of the optic. Same thing applies to archery. Archery softwares should require 3 points on a curve to create an arc, not 2.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it gets it pretty close. It's not getting a "zero" point with a wildly variable arc, but it's getting a muzzle velocity and a downrange velocity to calculate out the trajectory and estimated "BC" equivalent of the arrow. I'm sure they're not going to give away their formula, but they go into it a little bit on their other sight in methods on the FAQ page:



It looks like they've also stated that using the chronograph "downrange" method, they don't see much difference in sight tapes if you're shooting past 60 yards:



I know personally I've found that setting it up at 0 and 90 yards yields a pretty good sight tape, at least I haven't found fault in it yet. It sounds like others have had different experiences though.

Out of curiosity, have you personally tested the chrono method and found it to not work? I'm always looking for better methods personally

edit: Wanted to mention that I read your post on your procedure. Looks like a very accurate way to do it, just requires a little time and involvement, as does the precision cut methods.

 

[dkime]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it gets it pretty close. It's not getting a "zero" point with a wildly variable arc, but it's getting a muzzle velocity and a downrange velocity to calculate out the trajectory and estimated "BC" equivalent of the arrow. I'm sure they're not going to give away their formula, but they go into it a little bit on their other sight in methods on the FAQ page:

View attachment 731422

It looks like they've also stated that using the chronograph "downrange" method, they don't see much difference in sight tapes if you're shooting past 60 yards:

View attachment 731423

I know personally I've found that setting it up at 0 and 90 yards yields a pretty good sight tape, at least I haven't found fault in it yet. It sounds like others have had different experiences though.

Out of curiosity, have you personally tested the chrono method and found it to not work? I'm always looking for better methods personally

edit: Wanted to mention that I read your post on your procedure. Looks like a very accurate way to do it, just requires a little time and involvement, as does the precision cut methods.

I have used the chronograph method against the method that I employ, with both a labradar as well as garmin as well as various shoot through styles. Like i said above, I have no familiarity with precision cut. I was just answering questions that were given to me. For hunting purposes a yard or two may not be a big deal to you at your middle ranges. But if you want to have a tape be as accurate as possible; I have yet to see a chronograph method work out well enough for me to take it on a hunt, let alone a tournament.

 

[ddowning]

Do you know if precision cut gives you the ability to input 3 instead of 2?

Yes. You can measure 3 points and use it to create the curve. That is one of the options.

To give some additional feedback, my daughter has a BT Convergence with a Spot hogg fe. Her arrow speed is 181 fps. We shot in some marks at 20,40,60 which is where she runs out of clearance with the sight. I figured out the #1 sight tape was too fast and purchased a subscription to precision cut archery app. I chronographed the setup and took peep height and sight radius measurements, weighed an arrow and put the info in the app. The sight tape was dead nuts on.

 

[dkime]

The sight tape was dead nuts for your daughter or dead nuts for you shooting her bow? Again no familiarity with the system just trying to understand it

 

[Gmatyok]

HAHAHAHA LabRadar.. Stick with Garmin



yeah that would work I actually have space to go out to 140 yards but 90 is good enough

What’s wrong with lab radar? Genuinely asking don’t know much between the 2


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[ddowning]

The sight tape was dead nuts for your daughter or dead nuts for you shooting her bow? Again no familiarity with the system just trying to understand it

My daughter, within her ability to shoot her bow. It may have been off a bit, but I was impressed that the 20, 40, and 60 marks lined up exactly with the marks we made on the wheel. Also, when she shot with the tape, her groups were centered. I didn't put them side by side, but a yard on her tape at 60 looked a lot bigger than a yard on my factory SH tape at 100. Also, I have to cut once I get to 65 yards on my tape to get it to line up.

I'm not saying you could necessarily use this method and go win a 900 round. I was just impressed with such a slow arrow. She was holding about an 8 in group at 60 yards with some groups down around the 5 inch range. I know that is not great accuracy to test the app, but the center of the groups were centered on the aiming point at every yardage we shot at.

If I have time, which is not likely, I will try that method with my bow at distance and see what I come up. Also, I am a general contractor, but I have been everywhere in carpentry including building cabinets and furniture. The only person likely to get more accurate peep height and sight radius measurements than me is a machinist. All of that has an effect on the accuracy of the tape. Honestly, from working with different programs shooting rifles and understanding what is under the hood, the method of getting a velocity at 2 distances is probably the best one as long as the distance to the chrono and the chrono are both very accurate. After that 3 sight marks are probably best.

 

[jbelz]

3 marks are definitely better than 2 marks