POSTING FOR AWARENESS FOR UTAH AND IDAHO RESIDENTS

[Rotnguns]

Why in hell aren't the western states building more dams for reservoirs? As far as I can tell, the last dam built in WA was nearly 50 years ago. Oh, not to mention the 2 dozen dams that have been torn out in the last couple years.

These data centers will become commonplace. Y'all better get used to it.

The four Lower Snake River dams, combined, generally provide less than a gigawatt of annualized power. To provide a fixed power source of 9 GW, you'd need more than 36 of them. I challenge anyone to find even ONE single river that's available for a dam and pool the size of Ice Harbor, Little Goose, Lower Monumental, or Lower Granite.

 

[One300wsm]

This is a good point - if they can get away with it, they could use air-cooled condensers. Might work for the cold part of the year, but certainly not in the summer. As for using ACC for their data center, I'm very skeptical that they could pull this off at scale. As you say, the heat's got to go somewhere. Just speculating here, but I wonder if some the heated water used to cool the data center could be incorporated into the reheat cycle of the plants themselves.

You’re not getting the point, watch Tuckers video and you might understand what’s happening. I mean if you’re a resident of Utah and like getting screwed in the it’s all good. It’s also going to be close enough to screw Idaho over time.

 

[CorbLand]

You’re not getting the point, watch Tuckers video and you might understand what’s happening. I mean if you’re a resident of Utah and like getting screwed in the it’s all good. It’s also going to be close enough to screw Idaho over time.

There are very few Utahans that actually want this. The number decreases the closer one gets to the proposed site.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

The four Lower Snake River dams, combined, generally provide less than a gigawatt of annualized power. To provide a fixed power source of 9 GW, you'd need more than 36 of them. I challenge anyone to find even ONE single river that's available for a dam and pool the size of Ice Harbor, Little Goose, Lower Monumental, or Lower Granite.

I wasn't referring to power generation, but water retention. This could be used for small nuke plants. You don't need a giant river for this. Just a canyon and a small creek to retain snow/rain runoff. Look what has happened in CA the last few years. All that rain dumped into the ocean.

 

[fatlander]

For now, yes. They just want to dump hot water in sedge creek > lake Anna. But I bet they will be pulling from the cold side of the lake before you know it. And what happens to the already warm side?

And here’s another thing - my cousin thought of making a small solar farm. The state is not your friend.

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They’re never going to pull from the cold side of Anna DEQ and whoever just bought dominion will never allow it.

The reason they’re pulling from a drinking water reservoir and taking water 10 miles cross county is because the reservoir has a grandfathered withdraw permit that they didn’t have to ask permission to tap into.

I grew up there, still live there, and I’m involved in the industry that’s being impacted.

It’s happening everywhere across our state. They’re targeted existing withdraw permits where they don’t have to prove they’ll not exceed sustainable withdrawal. You can see the writing on the wall of where it’s going, but until it hits the fan there’s no regulatory agency that can stop it. Further, the federal government is pushing hard to make sure no state or local government tries to stop it.

And the solar farm thing has always been a racket. Controlled by the people with the power in that county. We lost 1800 acres of hunting land to a solar farm that hasn’t made a nickel. All it’s done is lock up the land and put ridiculous run off on my friends farms.


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[Rotnguns]

You’re not getting the point, watch Tuckers video and you might understand what’s happening. I mean if you’re a resident of Utah and like getting screwed in the it’s all good. It’s also going to be close enough to screw Idaho over time.

I watched the video you linked, which included Jimmy Dorr's commentary. I saw no technical aspects discussed by Tucker, Jimmy, or Kevin. Primarily, it was the pro/con of an enormous taxpayer investment to subsidize this gigantic data center and associated power plant complex. O'Leary thinks we need it to stay competitive in AI; maybe, maybe not. That's not his motivation in either case - it's money, pure and simple. I'm focused on the technical feasibility of such a massive project - there are many, many unresolved issues that could lead to enormous cost overruns and delays.

 

[One300wsm]

There are very few Utahans that actually want this. The number decreases the closer one gets to the proposed site.

I’m literally 2000 miles from this project and don’t hunt anywhere near it. Its existence isn’t going to affect me whatsoever. It’s the principle for its existence and the way they going to pay for it and how it’s going to affect the environment. And as you can see most couldn’t care less. This pretty much sums up how much they love their children and grandchildren these are the ones that will be affected. Sad day indeed in America this is what we have become so weak. Can’t even kick Irans ass, god forbid if China comes knocking. No worries there building a huge data center in Utah freaking idiots.

 

[Rotnguns]

I wasn't referring to power generation, but water retention. This could be used for small nuke plants. You don't need a giant river for this. Just a canyon and a small creek to retain snow/rain runoff. Look what has happened in CA the last few years. All that rain dumped into the ocean.

Questions of scale aside, I see what you're saying now. But we don't get to dam rivers wherever we want - there are interstate and even international streamflow agreements adjudicated over the years that guarantee minimum stream flows from one state to another, and from our nation to Mexico.

 

[One300wsm]

They’re never going to pull from the cold side of Anna DEQ and whoever just bought dominion will never allow it.

The reason they’re pulling from a drinking water reservoir and taking water 10 miles cross county is because the reservoir has a grandfathered withdraw permit that they didn’t have to ask permission to tap into.

I grew up there, still live there, and I’m involved in the industry that’s being impacted.

It’s happening everywhere across our state. They’re targeted existing withdraw permits where they don’t have to prove they’ll not exceed sustainable withdrawal. You can see the writing on the wall of where it’s going, but until it hits the fan there’s no regulatory agency that can stop it. Further, the federal government is pushing hard to make sure no state or local government tries to stop it.

And the solar farm thing has always been a racket. Controlled by the people with the power in that county. We lost 1800 acres of hunting land to a solar farm that hasn’t made a nickel. All it’s done is lock up the land and put ridiculous run off on my friends farms.


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Because the East side of the Blue Ridge is full of Liberals.

 

[One300wsm]

I watched the video you linked, which included Jimmy Dorr's commentary. I saw no technical aspects discussed by Tucker, Jimmy, or Kevin. Primarily, it was the pro/con of an enormous taxpayer investment to subsidize this gigantic data center and associated power plant complex. O'Leary thinks we need it to stay competitive in AI; maybe, maybe not. That's not his motivation in either case - it's money, pure and simple. I'm focused on the technical feasibility of such a massive project - there are many, many unresolved issues that could lead to enormous cost overruns and delays.

I couldn’t give a rats ass about AI, I don’t need it and neither does young minds. The cell phone and social media has already brainwashed our youth “Addiction”. Now we need AI not only to brainwash you but to spy even closer on you. It’s just mind blowing the way people think today. I’m glad I’m on the down hill slide out of this mess and not new coming in. Shit, what am I talking about you’re probably AI who can tell the difference anymore. I’m sitting here bitching at something with no brains .

 

[fatlander]

Because the East side of the Blue Ridge is full of Liberals.

Yeah I hate it here. I’m planning our exit to MT.


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[Rotnguns]

I couldn’t give a rats ass about AI, I don’t need it and neither does young minds. The cell phone and social media has already brainwashed our youth “Addiction”. Now we need AI not only to brainwash you but to spy even closer on you. It’s just mind blowing the way people think today. I’m glad I’m on the down hill slide out of this mess and not new coming in. Shit, what am I talking about you’re probably AI who can tell the difference anymore. I’m sitting here bitching at something with no brains .

If your exposure to AI is through social media and chat, then I can see how you'd be frustrated. But I assure you that deep-learning algorithms have led to major advances in engineering and science that have dramatically improved the human condition. I've got direct experience in using neural net programming to segment and identify human tissue in medical images from CAT and MRI scans. Neural nets are the foundation for AI programs of all sorts, but back then, we didn't even call it AI. We were concerned with building virtual and later physical models for diagnosis and for surgical navigation, using "rapid prototyping," which now is called 3D printing. I wish the engineering and scientific community would do a better job at explaining the different types of AI and the benefits and limitations associated with them.

 

[wind gypsy]

Can we just nuke all technology newer than say 2010 worldwide?

 

[Fowl Play]

I actually thought SpaceX’s idea of space based data centers was a bit crazy, but the more I look at the implications of these huge terrestrial centers — it starts to make sense. Solar power in space is way more effective, cooling is not an issue in space, it’s not gobbling up resources here on earth or dealing with regulatory issues. I get it…

 

[One300wsm]

If your exposure to AI is through social media and chat, then I can see how you'd be frustrated. But I assure you that deep-learning algorithms have led to major advances in engineering and science that have dramatically improved the human condition. I've got direct experience in using neural net programming to segment and identify human tissue in medical images from CAT and MRI scans. Neural nets are the foundation for AI programs of all sorts, but back then, we didn't even call it AI. We were concerned with building virtual and later physical models for diagnosis and for surgical navigation, using "rapid prototyping," which now is called 3D printing. I wish the engineering and scientific community would do a better job at explaining the different types of AI and the benefits and limitations associated with them.

I don’t mean to disrespect you at all, you speak highly intelligent if you’re a human. The problem exists is that all minds don’t think a like, seems as if your ideas are for good intentions. Billionaires ideas are not for good intentions it’s for personal gain, as how our government has grown to be. Just like Bill Gates and his adversaries poisoning us with the lone star tick and so on, and I’m to trust AI will be used for the good of the people it’s laughable and Sad at the same time of what we have become.

 

[Poser]

Maybe we should go back to the horse and buggy days?

Do you really think these data centers are going to suck the Electricity and water from your area and leave you high and dry?

Those centers have a captive water system that recycles their own water. Local residents should be insisting the centers have their own power system like a small nuke.

With those 2 things in place, whats the big deal?

While closed-loop systems exist, the majority of large-scale or hyperscale data centers, the ones driving the current AI boom, rely heavily on open-loop evaporative cooling.

To save on electricity bills, these centers use massive cooling towers where hot water from the servers is exposed to the air. The water then evaporates to carry the heat away. Once that water evaporates, it's gone from the local watershed. A single large data center can consume between 1 million to 5 million gallons of water a day. If they are built in water-stressed or arid regions, they absolutely compete with local residential and agricultural water tables. No way around. And that is the big deal.

 

[Rotnguns]

I don’t mean to disrespect you at all, you speak highly intelligent if you’re a human. The problem exists is that all minds don’t think a like, seems as if your ideas are for good intentions. Billionaires ideas are not for good intentions it’s for personal gain, as how our government has grown to be. Just like Bill Gates and his adversaries poisoning us with the lone star tick and so on, and I’m to trust AI will be used for the good of the people it’s laughable and Sad at the same time of what we have become.

No dis taken, thanks for the compliment. I promise that I'm a human, but my wife might argue about that..

 

[Poser]

As for nuclear power mentioned elsewhere in this post, it takes about a decade to build a nuclear power plant. These tech companies want data cenetrs and they want them them now. They don't want to wait a decade for nuclear power, they don't even won't to provde their own power infrastructure. They want to construct the facility, plug into the exisiting infrastructure and use the cheap water to cool the facilities AND, they expect the local politicians to roll out the red carpet of tax breaks for a complex that offers relatively few jobs once construction is completed. And some of theese politicians are providing just that.

I'd say its perfectly reasonable to expect multi billion dollar tech copmpanies to invest in their own power infrastructure and to use more expensive cooling alternatives to the local aquifer, of which there are multiple options including closed loop systems. But they aren't doing that because no one is requiring them to do that.

 

[One300wsm]

As for nuclear power mentioned elsewhere in this post, it takes about a decade to build a nuclear power plant. These tech companies want data cenetrs and they want them them now. They don't want to wait a decade for nuclear power, they don't even won't to provde their own power infrastructure. They want to construct the facility, plug into the exisiting infrastructure and use the cheap water to cool the facilities AND, they expect the local politicians to roll out the red carpet of tax breaks for a complex that offers relatively few jobs once construction is completed. And some of theese politicians are providing just that.

I'd say its perfectly reasonable to expect multi billion dollar tech copmpanies to invest in their own power infrastructure and to use more expensive cooling alternatives to the local aquifer, of which there are multiple options including closed loop systems. But they aren't doing that because no one is requiring them to do that.

Sir you have way too much common sense. Could you pass some of that around to a few in this thread please. Ole Mr Wonderful threatens if he didn’t get what he wanted he would take it to Texas . Texas power infrastructure is shit, one little cold snap shut the whole damn state down . Take it to Texas Mr Wonderful!!! Pretty sure ole senator Lee has his hands all over this probably who he was going to sell the public land to. I’m not sure if everyone can comprehend how huge this place will be.

 

[HighUintas]

I live in Utah and haven't researched it heavily, but from the articles I've read it is supposed to be a 12 GW operation, which is ~3x that of the states total power consumption. I've not looked into the cooling source that's proposed, but my wife said that it is to pull water from, I think, the Bear River which feed the salt lake.

Anyone done more in depth reliable research to verify those aspects?