Poll - One all around single cartridge under conditions

[CJ_BG]

I can’t vote. The best single cartridge isn’t listed. Who does a one and done thread about rifles and leaves out the 30/06?

Someone smart?

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Someone smart?

If you say so.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I can’t vote. The best single cartridge isn’t listed. Who does a one and done thread about rifles and leaves out the 30/06?

Did you read the original post? The list only includes rifles the OP already owns.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Holy smokes, take a chill pill Nancie’s. It was a flippin’ joke.

 

[USAF Ret]

I can’t vote. The best single cartridge isn’t listed. Who does a one and done thread about rifles and leaves out the 30/06?

Because I have spinal degeneration, a titanium rod in my neck, and torn up shoulders. My 30-06 was sold after I shot it the last time. Haha.

 

[Marbles]

None of the above. 6 Creedmoor.

 

[Team4LongGun]

If you have to elaborate on how it's clear, it's not clear

Case in point: Steve, and or you and the boys need to slow it down, read and comprehend. The fact your still arguing a point in which is fallible is silly and telling at the same time.

Go hunt man, don't die on this hill.

We will still be here when you get back

 

[LoH]

I have some 120 Barnes TTSX in 7mm that could be a good pill for elk. I know they are for deer. I just have not done much testing with them.

I think you’d be fine with 120gr TTSX on elk. I have shot more than a dozen elk with 6.5 Creedmoor with 127gr LRX and 140-143gr bergers and eldx, as well as 6cm with 75gr tipped hammer hunter. All practically DRT. These were all cow elk, but I do not think results would differ appreciably on a bull.

 

[MT_Fin]

I think what rifles they are chambered in are important in deciding as well. For instance, if one is a 12lb heavy barrel in 6.5cm, that would be the all around choice in my opinion. But if they Amare are all similar platforms more or less, then 6.5cm is the choice.

 

[Tx270WT]

Would you also not gamble on a 270 Win for elk?

That’s why I take a 7mag

 

[Tx270WT]

None of the above. 6 Creedmoor.

6mm class has quickly become a favorite for me.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

You’re still cherry picking. Is there a magical line at 1/4 mile where Ballistic Coefficient starts taking effect?

No there is not.

To retain the same velocity at 440yds with a 7mm bullet of the same weight of an equivalent 6.5mm bullet, you have to start the 7mm bullet 50-100fps faster due to the poorer ballistic coefficient. That takes more powder, and more muzzle velocity, resulting in about a 10% bump in recoil for the same on ballistic performance at 1/4 mile. Muzzle velocity is irrelevant unless you’re shooting animals in cages. At every point beyond that, the 7mm is falling further behind. A slight reduction in powder mass/momentum is totally washed away by the velocity delta required at the start to get them to perform the same downrange. This is pedantic at this point, because as you mentioned, they’re BOTH overkill for the intended application. However, the 7mm-08 is slightly more overkill, and comes with measurably increased recoil to accompany that.

There’s just enough sciency sounding stuff here to throw up a smoke screen, so here’s one last attempt to cut through it:

For any bullet you’d fire from a 7mm-08, there’s a ~20gr lighter option that has the same exterior and terminal ballistics with significantly reduced recoil in the 6.5. That includes the 100gr .264 Ballistic Tip, for which there is no equivalent weight 7mm variant.

Cherries do taste better than nits, in my experience, LOL

OP set the parameters he was looking for as low recoil and to reach 300 yards (definitely) and 400 yards (maybe). 400 yards is close enough to a 1/4 mile it makes a nice conversational term.

The 7mm bullet of identical construction to a 6.5 of the same weight, is indeed slowing down faster than the 6.5, and if both are launched at the same speed, it will of course have lower FPS at longer dange. But that is a moot point if both are still going fast enough, and at the ranges stated, both of them will be.

To say "well, there's this 100 grain bullet I could shoot in a 6.5 you don't have an equivalent in 7mm" is the very definition of cherry picking. So, ok, if you wanna limit yourself to a 100 grain bullet to hunt deer, then 6.5 is your huckleberry (but a 243 would be even better at that).

For any given bullet weight, you can launch a 7mm at any given FPS for less powder and recoil than a 6.5 - and it does not matter what 6.5 it is (CM, 55, PRC, etc), physics favors the larger bore size in terms of bullet weight X + powder charge Y = Z FPS.

Note, it's also true the bigger you go - a 130 grain 308 bullet can be kicked out at the same ish velocity as a 130 7mm or 130 6.5 for even less recoil. But none of the 130 class 308 bullets I am aware of can keep the velocity needed at 400 yards, where there are some 7mms that can, so 7mm-08 is a solid choice for OPs stated criteria.

 

[Boarmaster]

I love my 7mm08 but I will admit if I was younger and starting up or just younger and looking for a deer rifle I would pick the 6.5 CM. Even at 63 if I get the notion to buy a new deer rifle it will be in 6.5 cm.

 

[USAF Ret]

I am truly amazed at the response for the 6.5 CM over the others. Fantastic information on bullet selection, weight, velocity, and recoil. It gives me some good test data. I am planning on selling 3-4 of the rifles listed and focus on testing the 7mm-08 and the 6.5 with different monolithic bullets.

It seems my dream of an elk hunt is happening from a gentleman who saw my thread. His organization hosts disabled veterans in ID. We are working on an elk hunt for next year, so after deer season, I gotta get busy. Just hoping my health hangs in long enough. Been a rough few months and docs cannot do anything but treat pain.

 

[Tx270WT]

These threads are always entertaining, realistically all your choices are decent enough and have done what you’re asking. Just load up or buy a bunch of ammo and spend time on the range with whatever you decide on and you’ll be good to go

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Case in point: Steve, and or you and the boys need to slow it down, read and comprehend. The fact your still arguing a point in which is fallible is silly and telling at the same time.

Go hunt man, don't die on this hill.

We will still be here when you get back

Well I dropped it two days and three pages ago so...right back atcha?

 

[Bladewurk]

.308 even tho I rarely use it

 

[cal30_sniper]

You can of course, get even lighter bullets in a 6.5 than you can in a 7mm-08, but south of 120 grains, both cartridges are shooting varmint and target bullets mostly, so practically speaking, 120 grains is about the floor for hunting bullets (not counting barnes/solids, but I would not hunt with those, so I don't count them).

To say "well, there's this 100 grain bullet I could shoot in a 6.5 you don't have an equivalent in 7mm" is the very definition of cherry picking. So, ok, if you wanna limit yourself to a 100 grain bullet to hunt deer, then 6.5 is your huckleberry (but a 243 would be even better at that).

The contradiction in the above two statements speaks for itself, but thank you for finally acknowledging my point. There is no 100 gr option in that bullet class for 7mm, which is exactly why a 6.5mm caliber is an advantage when recoil is a primary consideration. For ANY type of bullet in 7mm, there's a lighter equivalent option in 6.5mm (or .257/.243/.224) that will do the same job.

It's a physics-based fact that lighter bullets at similar velocity = less recoil. You acknowledge this relationship when comparing .243 to .264 bullets, as well as the equal weights = worse ballistics in larger calibers relationship when comparing .284 to .308 bullets. An individual that's not attached to the emotional aspects of 6.5 Creedmoor vs 7mm-08 comparison should realize the same relationships hold true there as well. Arguing over 2grs of powder mass difference (not all of which is even moving at muzzle velocity) is a Red Herring in a world where a 20gr bullet mass difference is the average between the two calibers.

For every 7mm bullet you’d shoot, there’s a lighter bullet in 6.5 that will do the same thing in flight and on impact with approximately 20% less recoil. 20% is noticeable for the average guy, and even more so for someone packing a physical injury.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I am truly amazed at the response for the 6.5 CM over the others. Fantastic information on bullet selection, weight, velocity, and recoil. It gives me some good test data. I am planning on selling 3-4 of the rifles listed and focus on testing the 7mm-08 and the 6.5 with different monolithic bullets.

It seems my dream of an elk hunt is happening from a gentleman who saw my thread. His organization hosts disabled veterans in ID. We are working on an elk hunt for next year, so after deer season, I gotta get busy. Just hoping my health hangs in long enough. Been a rough few months and docs cannot do anything but treat pain.

I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but my 6.5x55 is very pleasant to shoot with 100gr HHTs. I also have some 80gr 6.5mm HHTs, but I haven't run any of them down the barrel yet. Given some expected deviation in bullet placement for my iron sight hunt this year, I opted for the 130gr Accubond for a little more insurance on terminal performance over the lighter recoiling monolithics. A 100gr or 120gr ELDM or 107gr SMK would probably have been even better, but I ran out of time to experiment with them this year.

I'm in a "recoil sensitive" application for this rifle, as the rear aperture is only about 2 inches in front of my eyeball. I've experienced a repeatable and noticeable difference in recoil stepping down from 140 -> 130 -> 100gr bullets in this rifle, as measured by how often my eyepro is contacted by the recoiling aperture. This is especially evident when leaving the benchrest or prone for practice in less stable positions.

Congrats on the hunt!

 

[BuckSmasher]

I can’t vote. The best single cartridge isn’t listed. Who does a one and done thread about rifles and leaves out the 30/06?

I wondered the same thing so didn't vote. 30-06 is so clearly superior to 308 makes you wonder.