Point restriction - a 100 years on the ranch

[WRO]

I've been hunting the same piece of dirt for the last decade off and on. It's been in the same family for the last century.

For the first 75 years, if it had 4 points, it was dead. Points trumped age and only recently has there been age based management. Out of the 100's of bucks I have obeserved over the last 10 years, maybe 1 in 10 has more than 3 points.

The dominant breeding bucks end up being these.






We thought the oldest one was 9 and the other 2 are 4 and 6. Never going to be more than forks.

Age matters, not total points.

 

[realunlucky]

I believe if you ask most biologists they'd agree majority of breeding is done by young bucks.

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[robby denning]

Could it be the 4pt+ are spotting the red full long johns? LOL!

Seriously, thanks for sharing this. We had a bio on the Rokcast last year (Jeff Short of Wy) and he'd studied APRs extensively and found only a short term benefit and warned against long term implications.

(those things have a back door, or you gotta undo all those buttons?)

 

[WRO]

I believe if you ask most biologists they'd agree majority of breeding is done by young bucks.

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That's because they've F'd up the age class so bad in most units.

 

[WRO]

Could it be the 4pt+ are spotting the red full long johns? LOL!

Seriously, thanks for sharing this. We had a bio on the Rokcast last year (Jeff Short of Wy) and he'd studied APRs extensively and found only a short term benefit and warned against long term implications.

(those things have a back door, or you gotta undo all those buttons?)

The sitka ones have easy access flaps.. Mine are still old skool.

 

[robby denning]

The sitka ones have easy access flaps.. Mine are still old skool.

 

[Hnthrdr]

So WRO, have/are you trying to implement an APR strategy for said ranch? Or just observations of what you have seen there, don’t think all I would want to see is big forkies, but giant fork horns are pretty cool

 

[WRO]

So WRO, have/are you trying to implement an APR strategy for said ranch? Or just observations of what you have seen there, don’t think all I would want to see is big forkies, but giant fork horns are pretty cool

There is an age program, not an APR. Bucks die because they are 8 or 9, not because of their points unless they are forks or 3 points. Those need to die around 5.

Just more my observations from the last decade.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Gotcha, I guess I’ll follow that up with what you are looking for to give you the go ahead on a mature buck. Body? Face shape? Combination of those?

 

[WRO]

Gotcha, I guess I’ll follow that up with what you are looking for to give you the go ahead on a mature buck. Body? Face shape? Combination of those?

Body, first big pot belly is a sure sign. I have seen old bucks with short noses and long ones. Deer that there are 5 plus years of sheds off of that have different facial structures.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Nice I always try to get better at IDing mature deer, I would rather shoot an older age class buck than a great up and coming buck, in the couple areas I hunt frequently, the older bucks seem to be fewer and fewer and I agree antler points are not always the best indicator. Also the country that the ranch is in looks awesome!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Super interesting, thanks for posting up and yes those are some super cool bucks you guys kill even if they only are big 2 points, I like em!!!

 

[Baddog]

How big of a ranch is it? Is it actually big enough to manage the deer or are they moving on and off it?

 

[BRTreedogs]

I have a big pot belly.
Come to think of it.
I'm pretty old too.

 

[TheTone]

Also any idea on approximate number of resident deer on the property and how many deer are being shot a year?

 

[WRO]

Also any idea on approximate number of resident deer on the property and how many deer are being shot a year?

Maybe 150 now, used to be 1000. 1-4 a year on average.

It’s a migratory area, coyote control is helping. Used to be a dozen deer back in the day.


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[Beendare]

Assuming you are seeing everything…..I would be interested in any conclusions you come up with.

As I understand it, its food and genetics…and it looks like you have alfalfa so food should be covered.

My KS farmer buddy has been weeding out lesser bucks for years…and he has a high % of 10 points …which leads me to believe that selective culling works.

 

[Andyram_18]

I need me a mega forkasaurus like that one!

 

[Marble]

Assuming you are seeing everything…..I would be interested in any conclusions you come up with.

As I understand it, its food and genetics…and it looks like you have alfalfa so food should be covered.

My KS farmer buddy has been weeding out lesser bucks for years…and he has a high % of 10 points …which leads me to believe that selective culling works.

Besides food and genetics, I would add winter weather conditions when they are born. The above referenced podcast detailed how fawns born in very poor winter conditions and low birth weights had a significantly lower average weight, smaller antlers throughout their life and I believe smaller fawns. Not sure on the last one.

Basically, if the doe giving birth was in poor condition and gave birth to a fawn with a lower birthweight, generally that fawn would be weaker and smaller throughout their life cycle.

 

[Marble]

Could it be the 4pt+ are spotting the red full long johns? LOL!

Seriously, thanks for sharing this. We had a bio on the Rokcast last year (Jeff Short of Wy) and he'd studied APRs extensively and found only a short term benefit and warned against long term implications.

(those things have a back door, or you gotta undo all those buttons?)

@robby denning

I think that podcast was one of the best you guys have had in a long time. Some very interesting revelations came out. I thought the info on point restrictions and the management of elk/antelope vs deer was very interesting.

There was so much information given, I need to listen again.

Maybe put a link in t his thread for others to listen. It was very worth my time.