Point Creep - is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

[cgasner1]

I’m waiting for Oprah to say we all get a tag meme


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cgasner1]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marble]

Premium Deer Hunt Tags•Ninety percent (90%) of the individual zone or hunt tag quota shall be awarded using a Preference Point this is from Big Game Digest. It should be 50-50 just to be fair, but you wont hear too much about fairness coming from those with max points.

Everyone who hasn't been standing in line is screaming about fairness...

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[Marble]

No one is saying there aren’t opportunities, most of everyone on here is saying the system does not work for the current amount of applicants and tags. The system may have worked flawlessly 20 years ago but not today. Is that really hard to understand?

You're wanting something to change that benefits you. Where someone who has been spending money and waiting 20 years has waited and paid and now for some reason people who are just getting in line think they are entitled to something

Well you are not! You may, and I may, never get those tags we want. There is no guarantee you'll get any of it. There is limited supply and you'll have to be creative to achieve your dreams and or, work much harder.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

 

[I hunt_dm3]

You're wanting something to change that benefits you. Where someone who has been spending money and waiting 20 years has waited and paid and now for some reason people who are just getting in line think they are entitled to something

Well you are not! You may, and I may, never get those tags we want. There is no guarantee you'll get any of it. There is limited supply and you'll have to be creative to achieve your dreams and or, work much harder.



Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

I want a system that treats everyone fairly, just because you got in the game with a poor system shouldn’t mean everyone else has to suffer. I never plan on waiting for tags that take over 10+ year, not my style of hunting. But the way things are trending, just to get a tag you may have to wait 5+ years. Everyone should not have to suffer from a poor system just because some people go into earlier.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Why not just cap points at some number? 20? 25? 30?
Would that not solve most of the ‘I’ll never get there complaints” while also leaving lots of skin in the game for those who have been playing (and paying) for decades?

 

[I hunt_dm3]

Why not just cap points at some number? 20? 25? 30?
Would that not solve most of the ‘I’ll never get there complaints” while also leaving lots of skin in the game for those who have been playing (and paying) for decades?

That would just mean everyone would have to wait 30 years to be considered. Why not go to a bonus system so people who have applied longer get more entries but it is still a random draw. You are rewarded for not drawing but also don’t have to wait 20+ years to be considered.

 

[cal30_sniper]

I want a system that treats every fairly, just because you got in the game with a poor system shouldn’t mean everyone else has to suffer. I never plan on waiting for tags that take over 10+ year, not my style of hunting. But the way things are trending, just to get a tag you may have to wait 5+ years. Everyone should not have to suffer from a poor system just because some people go into earlier.

You’ll have to wait even longer when guys at the top of the pile stop buying points and start buying tags they have a good chance of hunting in a random draw.

Implying that low point holders will start drawing tags every year simply by eliminating points shows you don’t understand statistics or the factors that are driving creep in most units in the first place. If it takes you five years to draw a tag under a points system, it’s still going to take on average 5 years under a random draw (or more if dudes that were just collecting points start applying for tags they have a reasonable chance of drawing, since they have no incentive to wait it out anymore.)

 

[cal30_sniper]

That would just mean everyone would have to wait 30 years to be considered. Why not go to a bonus system so people who have applied longer get more entries but it is still a random draw. You are rewarded for not drawing but also don’t have to wait 20+ years to be considered.

Why not hunt in states that already have such a system?

You don’t have to wait for 20 years unless you choose to. Plenty of units can be hunted every other year.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

You’ll have to wait even longer when guys at the top of the pile stop buying points and start buying tags they have a good chance of hunting in a random draw.

Implying that low point holders will start drawing tags every year simply by eliminating points shows you don’t understand statistics or the factors that are driving creep in most units in the first place. If it takes you five years to draw a tag under a points system, it’s still going to take on average 5 years under a random draw (or more if dudes that were just collecting points start applying for tags they have a reasonable chance of drawing, since they have no incentive to wait it out anymore.)

I get stats, I also get that you won’t listen to the reason provided by multiple people here. Point systems are broken, experts and people who work in that field say that. These are not just my opinions, I’m done trying to reason with people who support point systems, it’s a futile endeavor. Good luck on your hunts this fall and have a good day.

 

[cal30_sniper]

You said you were done about 6 pages ago. Guess what, you’re still here calling everyone here that doesn’t agree with you an unreasonable boomer.

You clearly don’t get stats, or you couldn’t possibly have come to the conclusion that eliminating points will make it any easier to draw anything but pinnacle-level tags.

If you want a primo-level Hunt right now, there are plenty of places you can go and buy one. Or keep applying in random draw states if it just makes you feel good to have a minuscule chance. That kind of thinking is how casinos stay in business, after all!

 

[cgasner1]

I’m fine with a 5 year wait for a decent tag in a state but like I said I have applied in 6 other states so someone is getting a tag every year. And I’ll be hunting decent units spend some time and put a plan together instead of being pist one certain state told you no. These tags are good because it is a wait and people can’t just bulldoze these units


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

Why not just cap points at some number? 20? 25? 30?
Would that not solve most of the ‘I’ll never get there complaints” while also leaving lots of skin in the game for those who have been playing (and paying) for decades?

More people would be entering than exiting before long.

 

[CamoPirate]

The only thing that's still confusing me through all this is what someone pointed out:

-Points giving everyone a predictable chance at drawing a tag to help with planning.

Except that isn't that the whole point of this thread? Point creep and how it makes "predictable" tags that you could draw with 1 point all of a sudden take 5?

 

[realunlucky]

More people would be entering than exiting before long.

More people are entering than exiting in every single point system out there right now.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[cal30_sniper]

The only thing that's still confusing me through all this is what someone pointed out:

-Points giving everyone a predictable chance at drawing a tag to help with planning.

Except that isn't that the whole point of this thread? Point creep and how it makes "predictable" tags that you could draw with 1 point all of a sudden take 5?

And that’s different than 5X the people applying and it taking 5X longer to draw in a random system how?

More people applying for the same number of tags equal longer times per draw in any system. Something, something, free lunch.

 

[ScottR_EHJ]

More people are entering than exiting in every single point system out there right now.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

You are absolutely correct. My reply was to the top end end cap of points, that would be an exasperated situation.

 

[cal30_sniper]

You are absolutely correct. My reply was to the top end end cap of points, that would be an exasperated situation.

Okay, okay.

Bonus points within the top cap of points?

I think the valid argument against points systems is for the top level holders and complete inaccessibility at those levels for people who haven’t had the physical oppurtunity to collect that many points, and never will.

Other than those top-level hunts, I can’t see how getting rid of points systems would make anything better. You go from waiting years for a relative guarantee of a tag, or crap odds for eternity. Neither situation is ideal.

 

[realunlucky]

Okay, okay.

Bonus points within the top cap of points?

I think the valid argument against points systems is for the top level holders and complete inaccessibility at those levels for people who haven’t had the physical oppurtunity to collect that many points, and never will.

Other than those top-level hunts, I can’t see how getting rid of points systems would make anything better. You go from waiting years for a relative guarantee of a tag, or crap odds for eternity. Neither situation is ideal.

There are hybrid systems out there too. Nothing is without it's faults. More contestants and fewer winners just means more unhappy players.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Fordguy]

If demand is the problem, why isn't anyone talking about reducing demand? If the state goes to a system that only allows you to buy points or apply for a hunt on an odd or even year depending on your birth date then the odds of drawing a tag just improved significantly- for the year of everyone's application. Probably not a popular option, but it would increase the odds and slow point creep for a while.