Point Creep - is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

[satchamo]

Look - I know this topic has been beat to death but it real has me losing sleep.

I’m 33, 2 kids with the typical costs of life for people at my age so I’m not dripping cash. That said - I started the points game about 5 years ago with the idea of getting more and different opportunities than just OTC tags. Never with the idea of getting a “glory” tag. Hell I haven’t even shot an elk despite hunting them 7 years....

All I’m hearing is point creep.... I drew a WY gen elk last year with 3 points and I’m already hearing it took 4 this year on average and 3 on the special. I cannot wait to get back there but I’m looking at an uphill climb.

I’ve also been eyeing a unit in CO that I thought I’d be able to draw by 5 points but now it’s up to 7. I’m currently invested in CO, WY, AZ and always apply in NM and Kentucky.

This is just a few anecdotes - and not meant as a whoa is me type post - but more of a general question of where does it stop? I mean is it a matter of the boomer generation aging out of hunting? Is it a total change in state systems to total lottery? Is there no fix? I just get a bit pessimistic as I see more and more states and units slowly creeping out of reach for me. I’m an opportunity hunter - I don’t need a trophy, I just need encounters with animals.

I’m curious what others thoughts are? Will it get worse before it gets better? Will it get better? Will it balance out and hit a new “normal”? All we hear about is hunting getting less and less popular yet drawing tags is getting harder and harder. It just doesn’t add up.

 

[nettereo16]

It will get worse. Hunter numbers may be in decline for small game hunting but they are way up for western applications.
Nonresident allocations are always at a risk of being slashed.. WY and CO are both currently generous to NR but eventually they are bound to reduce the tags they give to NRs.

Gotta pay to play. Or just go hunt whitetails

 

[roadrunner]

As a Millenial you still have the Gen X crowd to wait out. By the time you are in your 50's, you will me a max point holder.

Maybe you're a Gen Y, but still, the Gen X crowd is ahead of you...

 

[Dos Perros]

I think one mental barrier is that a lot of people equate points to animals and success. That's not so. There may be a correlation but it's not a strong one. I did a regression analysis on the limited elk hunts in a state a couple years ago and it basically said the lower point units are undervalued, the middle points units are appropriately valued, and the higher point units are overvalued. Therefore the best value is to keep burning points as quickly as you can and hunt more. If the unit you want is out of reach, pick a new unit and go hunt.

FWIW, in the states you listed, assuming you put in for multiple species, you can have a pretty bangup hunt pretty much every year in perpetuity.

 

[Stikbrandon]

Random tags are awesome !

 

[OMB]

I get that western hunting is the hot thing right now, but I also can't help but look at hunting demographics and see that Boomers make up a giant portion of it. It's going to suck for glory tags and guided hunts for roughly the next 10 years, as they're retiring for good and knocking off their bucket list, but being more or less in the same boat as OP, I feel good about my mid and long term plans of what I'm trying to do.

 

[Schaaf]

Youve gotta outlive the bastards

 

[MallardSX2]

Its going to get worse until a lot of people give up, cant afford it, or die off.

I had hopes of shuffling though all of my points twice in my lifetime. I came to the conclusion that I will likely only draw 1 tag for each species in each state if I am lucky in my lifetime.

IMHO, the best thing a person could do is invest VERY early in life and when they retire they will be able to afford guided hunts. If I live to be 59-1/2 I will be able to afford those hunts and luckily for me I will be able to hunt the public land until that point. I always said that I would never go on a guided hunt but when I retire I am going to be done fighting the crowds.

 

[Rich M]

All I can say is to figure out what you want to do. Run with it. Don't look back once you set your plan.

You don't have to go every year, just be sure to do it a few times and enjoy the adventure. Mallard makes a great point - if you want a "better quality hunt", guided might be the best way to go.

As an almost boomer (this will be my 43rd season), I did the antelope and mule deer as bucket list DIY hunts in 2017 and 2019. Had 6 antelope bucks in easy range and only got 2 does cause did not get the buck tag. Mule deer was 300#, 160 inches, 25 inch spread - done. Still have that buck antelope hunt left. buddy wants to do cow elk, might do that... Maybe 4 western hunts in 1 lifetime.

Did change my future plans this past year due to the point creep thing and tag reduction talk. Not gonna fight it, gonna bow out and do something else a little more predictable, prolly hunt the 2-5 pt quota draws near home and fish.

 

[5MilesBack]

I get that western hunting is the hot thing right now, but I also can't help but look at hunting demographics and see that Boomers make up a giant portion of it.

People keep saying this kind of stuff, but over the last 10 years or so 90%+ of all the hunters I've seen in the backcountry or in camps were all younger than I am, and I'm 55. I rarely see older guys out there.

For NR's there's one thing that you need to realize. I haven't kept track to the specifics but at some point when resident tags go above a certain number of minimum points to draw, then the % of NR tags allotted drops. That will greatly add to the point creep for NR's.

 

[downthepipe]

As a 34 year old in a similar position as you, I am in the game knowing I may be thousands of dollars in and 25 years away from many tags. But that’s the cost and commitment. I do believe more people than you know will die or lose interest by the time we are in our fifties. Sadly though, I worry the big game herds may not be where they have been historically which is an X factor. If I were you I would always be applying in Idaho as well and looking at buying general elk tags in Idaho if your goal is to hunt as much as possible.

 

[cnelk]

Another misconception about PPs is the more it takes the bigger the bulls are.

Not true.

The more PPs a unit takes means the more limited in licenses there are.

 

[AZ8]

Getting worse in Arizona. Combination of a growing population, high profile social media blitz on all platforms and great weather.

Im 52. Arizona resident. Im at 18 points for deer. Still a few years out drawing the primo tag. Not long ago, 15-16 points would get this tag. Not anymore.

 

[Dirtbag]

At 30 years old, some of my friends in my age group have been gathering points since they were 12. Point creep will never go away until they do away with point systems all together. There will always be people who will bank points. Everything else is just a band-aid.

 

[Fallfreak]

I started applying when I was 30. I'm 46 now. Drew first limited tag in 2016 a wyoming antelope. I've drawn 2 limited entry tags both for elk (Utah got lucky in the random and WY this fall with max points? In the years before I've done otc in Colorado, leftover in Colorado, Cow elk in Utah, and random draw NM deer. Keep applying just know you want have a great tag every year but your bound to draw a good tag here and there if you keep applying and apply in multiple states. I know applications get expensive as well. I only applied for a couple states in the first few years as I had 3 young kids and a wife but as income increased so did my applications. Just keep at it!!

 

[MuleyFever]

It will continue to get worse. First off, dont assume anything will be the same. OTC opportunities are going away and will eventually be gone. Boomers may eventually age out but habitat loss and other factors (predators being one) will reduce opportunities across the board. Some regions will be more affected than others but it will concentrate hunters into those better regions making drawing a tag difficult. I am not trying to be all doom and gloom but hunting has an uphill battle. There are some great things happening that are increasing some opportunities but I dont think they will keep up with overall losses to opportunity.

 

[Beendare]

Delete

 

[Jimmy]

Just wait until states start doing away with the PP system and people that have been playing it for years lose their points.

 

[nettereo16]

Just wait until states start doing away with the PP system and people that have been playing it for years lose their points.

You're definitely entitled to that opinion. In my view, the PP systems are a huge money-maker for states and they will go further in that direction, rather than move away from them.

 

[sndmn11]

There were quality hunts in Colorado that went down in needed preference points for deer and elk.