Planning a Mountian Lion Hunt and Have a Few Questions

[TJE0705]

Hey guys, Im looking into booking a mountain lion hunt this winter and have a few questions for you guys:

-when booking what’s the normal protocol for dates? Do you set dates and keep them or is it all weather dependent and on a kind of last minute basis? I have some flexibility with work but not get a call and leave the next day kind of flexibility, so was just wondering how it goes.

-I’d like to keep it in the us (would love to do a BC hunt but funds aren’t going to allow right now) that being said I’m assuming the farther north you go (Montana,Idaho) the size of cats increase. which state would you guys recommend and why. I’d also be interested to hear you guys thoughts on more southern hunts on dry ground vs northern ones where they are more snow dependent.

-what’s a realistic success rate i should have in mind for a 6 day hunt

-Rifle, bow, or pistol? I have access to all three and am not set on a method. Was wondering what you guys prefer/reccomend

-Any recommendations on guides? currently I’m looking at Tyler Bowler and Biggerstaff. Im still very open to suggestions as I am in the beginning stages of planning this.

Thanks for the info guys!!

 

[LG1]

With good snow conditions and good dogs, the chance for success should be high, and mostly depend on if you want to shoot the treed cat or not? I'd guess around 50% chance you'll see something in the tree, again with decent conditions and dogs.

If you don't care what you kill the cat with, pack a pistol. Much easier to carry as you cover country that is snow-covered and rough.

I don't know anything about the southern, dry-ground hunts. As far as where to go, you can find a big cat about anywhere, but limited access is where I'd look. In heavily-roaded country, near civilization, cats gets picked off pretty quickly. I'd do a backcountry type hunt where you actually get out and walk a bunch to see the country, game, find kills, and get to see what a lion does on a daily basis.

 

[TJE0705]

Yes I should have made that more clear, the outfits I’m looking at would be hound hunts.

Anyone ever hunted with Dieringer Outfitters in AZ? Also looking at them as well.

 

[Scottf270]

I'm a cat hunting failure. 7 hunts, 5 outfitters, 4 states and Alberta, 42 days hunted and no big tom. I'm talking about trying to take a big tom of 150lbs plus. Been under 5 cats mostly females. Below are my thoughts.

1. If you will take near any cat, success goes way up.
2. Nearly any state or outfitter can produce a good cat. It's all about finding the "right" cat if your trophy hunting.
3. Every outfitter has taken a good cat or two, the trick is do they do it consistently.
4. Snow is not necessary but it sure helps. Dry ground involves a ton of work, skill, and luck. Need a specialist for this.


I'll just say this. And keep in mind my desire to only kill a true trophy cat colors my outlook.

If I ever try again I'll only book an on call hunt with snow.
I'll narrow my search down to areas that hold big cats and outfitters that only try to harvest that size cat.
I'll also look at areas with limited access such as private land or limited tags.
Dig deep into my wallet. Successful hunts for big cats need to be ran like a military operation with multiple scouts and lots of equipment.
Pray for a lot of luck or divine intervention.

The two outfitters you listed are good. I will throw in Bull Creek Outfitter as well. I'd say Biggerstaff is as much as some BC outfitters but you gotta be careful up there. Small areas and quite a bit of competition.

I'll throw Byron Stewart and Kelly Morton in Alberta in but you better dig deep.

Good luck.

 

[freddyG]

I'm a cat hunting failure. 7 hunts, 5 outfitters, 4 states and Alberta, 42 days hunted and no big tom. I'm talking about trying to take a big tom of 150lbs plus. Been under 5 cats mostly females. Below are my thoughts.

I wouldn’t consider that a failure. 150+ lb toms aren’t common, so it’s not surprising you didn’t find one.

To the OP, if you are willing to shoot a smaller female(although some outfitters won’t let you shoot females), the success rate is pretty good. If you are looking for a big tom, plan on not being successful.

 

[McFarmer]

While not in Arizona, I just took another nice female in Colorado right before the first of the year and I can give you some insight.

#1. Narrow down what you are willing to take. At $6K on average for the hunt, I am not passing on much of anything. I took a large female that was 115lbs and was very happy to do so. 150lbs trophy toms are rare.

#2. Snow is not required but it sure as hell helps on knowing where to release the hounds. We hunted a massive area south of Rocky Mnt National Park and most houndsmen are not just going to chase dogs all day on burned off ground hoping they pick something up. That is how you run into problems and lose dogs (lost/or killed)

#3. Be in shape, only pack essentials and hydrate. I saw more than one guy struggle to get his butt up the mountainside and it can cost you if that cat jumps

#4. Practice, practice, practice with your weapon of choice and stick to iron sights. While not hard to kill, you do not want a poor shot when they are in the tree directly above you. When I say practice, I mean run a mile, get the blood pumping, then practice.

#5. If you do get lucky to harvest one, the meat is delicious

 

[TJE0705]

I'm a cat hunting failure. 7 hunts, 5 outfitters, 4 states and Alberta, 42 days hunted and no big tom. I'm talking about trying to take a big tom of 150lbs plus. Been under 5 cats mostly females. Below are my thoughts.

1. If you will take near any cat, success goes way up.
2. Nearly any state or outfitter can produce a good cat. It's all about finding the "right" cat if your trophy hunting.
3. Every outfitter has taken a good cat or two, the trick is do they do it consistently.
4. Snow is not necessary but it sure helps. Dry ground involves a ton of work, skill, and luck. Need a specialist for this.


I'll just say this. And keep in mind my desire to only kill a true trophy cat colors my outlook.

If I ever try again I'll only book an on call hunt with snow.
I'll narrow my search down to areas that hold big cats and outfitters that only try to harvest that size cat.
I'll also look at areas with limited access such as private land or limited tags.
Dig deep into my wallet. Successful hunts for big cats need to be ran like a military operation with multiple scouts and lots of equipment.
Pray for a lot of luck or divine intervention.

The two outfitters you listed are good. I will throw in Bull Creek Outfitter as well. I'd say Biggerstaff is as much as some BC outfitters but you gotta be careful up there. Small areas and quite a bit of competition.

I'll throw Byron Stewart and Kelly Morton in Alberta in but you better dig deep.

Good luck.

Thanks man this is really great info to consider. Have you been with Bull Creek? If so I may dm you with some questions.

 

[Scottf270]

I have not hunted with them but I spoke with them at length. It's 2 brothers who do nothing but lion hunt nearly every day. They are used to dry ground at least half the time. Just give them a call and see what you think.

 

[Jmhunt_13]

Look into O'Brien Creek outfitters in Wy as well. Tyler is about as hard working as they come. Damn good odds on a big lion.

 

[mlchase]

Agree to much of all the above, but would add to discuss expectations of cat AHEAD of booking and planning. Some places can pressure into shooting smaller cats/females if that is all they are finding. Definitely go "on-call" if you can - success goes WAY up in fresh snow conditions including being able to sort out the "right" track before beginning the chase. Yes, it may be less convenient on work/family and involve a dicey road trip, but it is WAY BETTER.

On weapon, agree with pistol unless you have something special or short lever gun. I packed a crossbow along, and that SUCKED. While I couldve taken a smaller cat with the crossbow, I passed on that one. And eventually I ended up not using it as the shot didnt present itself ethically on a trophy cat. so ended up using pistol. Hindsight, I wouldve had a lot better time not humping that crossbow along, knocking snow off every branch etc. I have seen and been along on multiple one day hunts for big cats in the right spot and right conditions and had buddies book 6 day hunts and grind it out in poor conditions only to come home empty or with a small cat.

Only other tips - only pack enough along for the chase that you won't die - e.g. granola bar and water. When those dogs are running you want to keep up. And keep the meat! It is like lean pork!

 

[buffybr]

I've bought lion tags in my home states of Colorado and Montana for over 40 years, just hoping to run across a cat while I was deer or elk hunting.

Then a few years ago I finally booked a hunt with JT Robbins out of Grand Junction, CO. I booked for the first week of December. He had good dogs, and they treed my tom the first afternoon.

I'm comfident shooting pistols and was planning to use one of my Ruger .44 magnums, but my cat was treed in a pinyon pine tree that JT's dogs were trying to climb up, and he was afraid one of them would get too close to the cat, so he asked me to use my Win .30-30.

The blood on my hand is mine. Old thin skin scratches easily on brush and tree branches...

His temporary home until I remodel my living room for more wall space.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Went with buddy about 11 or 12 years ago to Colorado & he shot a 168lb Tom with Garvey Brothers Outfitters out of Nucla (was a true 168lb'er, dogs didn't push it off a kill site with a full stomach). Dustin and his dad were top notch and their hounds were amazing. Our Schedules back then were pretty flexible so once they knew a big storm was coming, they called us, and we hit the road. Funny enough the Tom was harvested with Tikka .223 back before these were all the rage on Rokslide.

 

[Tmac]

Been on two Cougar hunts with dogs. Oregon when legal and BC. Both with at least some snow. In total we treed/bayed 5 cats. Poor snow in OR led to chasing a couple cats we’d not have chased if snow was better. I was holding out for a mature tom, last cat in BC fit the bill, he bayed in a cave, that was a rodeo that nearly had a very bad ending.

I’d echo the advice given by Mcfarmer and others. Snow really helps, be in shape, etc. If you can be flexible enough to go when called, odds are likely to go up. They’ll likely call you when they find a good track or conditions are perfect for finding one. On a slow day in BC we decided to chase a Lynx for fun, was a bad idea, thing went 15 kilometers before it treed. Be in shape, all you have to do is keep up with the dogs, lol.

Ended up with a very large Tom from an outfitter in an area that was putting out large ones at the time. Was not easy, probably the second most strenuous hunt I have been on in by far the worst conditions. Big Tom in snowy & very difficult mountainous terrain, and -35 f below. Fun times.

 

[PathFinder]

Sounds like you're heading the right direction. No matter what outfitter you select, ask for some references to call and talk to.

• If you can be ready to go a week ahead of time, that's enough to plan for weather.
  • If you just want to kill a cat, plan for snow. If you want to see some serious dog work and have a more complete experience, book with someone who hunts that way. The two you mentioned do.
• Colorado produces big cats, but it's no guarantee for next year. Wyoming should be good, Nevada has some big cats. Utah is pretty hammered right now but there are still a few guys consistently harvesting big cats. No matter what, don't settle. More than any other animal, shooting a sub-mature tom or female is utterly shameful. Hold out for a mature tom. Any outfitter who tries to talk you into something less is cutting corners and needs to go get a normal job.
• Probably 25%-50% for a mature tom. Depends on the outfitter and area. Spending a little more may get you in with someone that has more resources and will have mature cats more or less located before the hunt. Private access could help too.
• Short rifles and 10mm pistols are great. Easy to pack, low drama, plenty effective. The shot is more anticlimactic on a lion hunt than any other, what it's shot with doesn't matter much.
• Be in fantastic shape. Taking people who can't keep up cat hunting is a major pain. Being in good shape will open up more options for your guide and increase your odds of success.

 

[Stache Attack]

Went with buddy about 11 or 12 years ago to Colorado & he shot a 168lb Tom with Garvey Brothers Outfitters out of Nucla (was a true 168lb'er, dogs didn't push it off a kill site with a full stomach). Dustin and his dad were top notch and their hounds were amazing. Our Schedules back then were pretty flexible so once they knew a big storm was coming, they called us, and we hit the road. Funny enough the Tom was harvested with Tikka .223 back before these were all the rage on Rokslide.

Bet the most common kills around here are .22 mags. That Tom must’ve been huge. I don’t like judging by weight, as you state, were they on a kill or have they gone 5 days without eating and now running around burning up weight trying to find a deer or elk.

 

[Arcola]

I just did my first Lion hunt in early January. It was an incredible time!

I’ll echo what has been posted above. On call is certainly ideal. If that isn’t an option with your schedule, I’d try to carve out two weeks to be on call, or have the flexibility to extend your hunt beyond a week if necessary. The outfitter I went with does a mix of scheduled hunts and on call clients. We went scheduled and got lucky with two nice snow storms in five days.

I would take a serious look at New Mexico and Arizona. Tag availability is great and I don’t believe that you’ll find larger cats in the north. My buddy and I went two for two on nice, mature Toms.

I went with Alan at Pinnacle Outfitters out of Colorado. We hunted New Mexico. I don’t know his exact success rate, but I know it is extremely high (and he doesn’t shoot females). He has several scouts that work hard. He also has the best hounds I’ve ever run with (this was my first Lion hunt, but I’ve hunted bears with hounds for several years). Like any hunt, there is certainly a luck factor with conditions and such but Alan and his team worked their a$$es off to find us the right conditions for a good hunt. My buddy shot his 15 miles south of the Colorado border. I shot mine a few days later, down in the Gila when all the snow melted up north.

Definitely use a pistol if you’re proficient. It’s one thing to carry a rifle or bow at an elk hunting pace. It’s a different beast postholing miles in deep snow.

I would whole heartedly recommend Pinnacle Outfitters if you’re willing to go to those more southern states. No matter which outfitter you pick, I’d recommend picking them in the very near future. Most of the good ones are going to be booking up for next year in a hurry. Good luck on this, it’ll likely be a hunt you won’t forget!

 

[SuperDUECE22]

Bet the most common kills around here are .22 mags. That Tom must’ve been huge. I don’t like judging by weight, as you state, were they on a kill or have they gone 5 days without eating and now running around burning up weight trying to find a deer or elk.

I agree, this tom was a beast that not only weighed up but his skull made B&C @ like 15 5/16"

 

[N.ID7803]

Go Idaho in January, snow should be good then. Check out Russel Pond/BbarC Outfitters, Chris will work hard to get you a cat. Or try Bradley Dammerman with Idaho Whitetail guides, both great choices in Idaho.

 

[Stache Attack]

I would try to draw a tag in northwest Montana, if you want to go guided not draw I’d say Idaho, Utah, or Nevada. Colorado is in grey area now… think standards should be 115-140 lb cat if you’re going to judge by weight… can’t attest to outfitters but there are some great dry ground dogs out there that can start on anything if there’s fresh sign. Going 6 days should bring a really good hunt and high success. Fun just to watch the dogs work and learn more about cats!

 

[TJE0705]

Hey guys thanks for all the great info! I heard back from Sam Dieringer (AZ) last week and talked to Dave Gowan of Compass West Outfitters (NV) last week. Both sound great, but two very different hunts. Dave said he works best on an “on call” schedule, which most of you have said is often better, Sam Dieringer said he’s more book and come seeing as they mostly are dry ground guys. I still have it on my list to call Tyler bowler this week as well. I guess my biggest thing to figure out is if I want more of a dry ground or snow hunt.