Picking an elk bullet: 180 NAB vs 168 ABLR in 30-06

[35WhelenAI]

The Accubond retains most of its weight and the ABLR sheds half its weight at normal hunting ranges we’re talking about. Obviously it depends on if you like a fragmenting bullet or not.

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At these ranges the Nosler Partition is also a good choice. Most guys I know who have switched from Partitions to Accubonds like the Accubond and it works just as well. However, it isn’t necessarily better. I like Partitions because it’s fun to tease the young guys with this old bullet.

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The Partition is an overlooked bullet. It does what guys have circled back to and that's fragment and destroy meat when it hits. But it penetrates. Been there done that. I avoid frangible bullets like the IRS, however the Partition performs with predictable monotonous animals on the ground.

 

[Okie_Poke]

A person can buy 50% more of the ABLRs and work towards addressing post #12 off paper towards the "that's data" statement.

I hadn’t really put this together until now. All I was thinking is that I can buy ABLRs in 100 round boxes instead of just 50.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Going down this path, find an inexpensive cup and core bullet and practice, then dial yourself in as hunting season approaches with the bullet you're going to use.

 

[Okie_Poke]

The Accubond retains most of its weight and the ABLR sheds half its weight at normal hunting ranges we’re talking about. Obviously it depends on if you like a fragmenting bullet or not.

This gets at the heart of it, I think. Maybe a better way of asking the question is, if I go with the 168 ABLR and get a shot at 50 yards in the timber, am I better or worse off than with the 180? Or does it matter between these two bullets? At these ranges there isn’t much appreciable difference in the ballistics, so bc isn’t really factoring here for me at the other end of the spectrum.

Traditional thought says the 180 would be better. And I have a very strong sentiment of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it.” But this is Rokslide, and for some reason I just can’t settle my mind on this one.

I agree on the partitions, but they are more expensive than the accubonds.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Going down this path, find an inexpensive cup and core bullet and practice, then dial yourself in as hunting season approaches with the bullet you're going to use.

This is what I’ve done in the past using 165 interlocks and 180 accubonds. It works, but it doesn’t really answer the OP dilemma.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I'll take weight retention and expansion 100% of the time. Get a quartering shot at close range, you're going to blow up some meat with something that loses 50% or more of its weight. That's the way it's always been, even before rokslide said it doesn't matter and pictures of blown up meat are posted with joy.

 

[sndmn11]

I'm following your reasoning, thanks for clarifying.

With that said, 71% difference in extreme spread, and 52% difference in standard deviation are notable. Those numbers may or may not tighten up but I would doubt they will switch places.

I doubt they would swap around, I also don't think those numbers matter much at the hunting distances most consider long range. This is an interesting read, and while the statistics in it are nice, one quote stands out.

"If you’re missing the target for reasons unrelated to vertical dispersion, then reducing vertical dispersion won’t improve hit percentage very much.”

How Much Does SD Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. After all, we’re trying to hit r...

precisionrifleblog.com

I think practice (buying 50% more bullets) put one on the way to overcoming the hurdles of the wind and deficient technique.

 

[Okie_Poke]

71% difference in extreme spread, and 52% difference in standard deviation are notable. Those numbers may or may not tighten up but I would doubt they will switch places.

Meh. At these ranges those differences aren’t playing. And having only compared 1 10-shot group per load, I’m not confident they are that much different. The 10-shot SD on my “match” load in my 6.5 Creedmoor with good components and weighing every charge varies from 8 to 15 (ETA: though it’s usually 9-11; 15 is an outlier for that load).

 

[ianpadron]

180 AB and .30-06 go together like PB&J

 

[UKwildcatfan]

I've only used the 180s. Performed great on elk.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Back to the heart of the thread. 180 all the way. With that said, if you post the velocities and the data, be ready for that to become part of the discussion. If you don't think it matters, go with what you want.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

The Partition is an overlooked bullet. It does what guys have circled back to and that's fragment and destroy meat when it hits. But it penetrates. Been there done that. I avoid frangible bullets like the IRS, however the Partition performs with predictable monotonous animals on the ground.

The 180g partition out of the 30-06 is a great way to go as well.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Back to the heart of the thread. 180 all the way. With that said, if you post the velocities and the data, be ready for that to become part of the discussion. If you don't think it matters, go with what you want.

I appreciate the discussion and your driving it.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I shoot both the accubond and partition out of my 30-06, I’ve killed animals with both. I’d need to look at my charts but if my goal is to keep impact velocity above 1800fps, the accubond buys me ~ 50 yards over the partition. That dosent matter though since that occurs past where I’d shoot at an animal. Both get me to roughly 500yds. Keep in mind though, my 30-06 has had the barrel cut to 18” to be used with a silencer. Starting muzzle velocity for both the 180g ABs and PTs is right at 2700fps.

Just a Quick Look shows that
The .507 BC gets me to 550 with the AB
The .474 BC gets me to 500 with the PT

Both shoot about equally well. The AB probably drifts a bit less and is bonded, I’d shoot an elk with either. I guess I’d shoot about anything with either.

 

[35WhelenAI]

The best gun to shoot an elk with is the one you have in your hands at the time. Take what's up to spout and put it where it needs to be.

180.

 

[AB3006]

A vote for the 180 here, @Okie_Poke. 85 fps isn't much of a difference, so the advantage in speed and (possibly) the flatter trajectory of the 168 is more than made up for by bullet mass, given the respective average energies. Also, accounting for typical hunting distances, any edge in the 168's ballistics will not matter.

Finally, judging by your groups, your rifle seems to like the 180s better. 180s in my 30-06 were also my choice for Elk... until I bought a 9.3x62, which will be my elk medicine this year. Now, since the 30-06 is going back to being a universal deer catcher, I'm loading with 165 gr Nosler BTs over Hunter.

 

[35WhelenAI]

It's taboo to start talking about energies, that's not a killing factor. It's about expansion at the range the animal is shot. If the bullet will expand and penetrate it's a done deal.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Full circle, the 180 is your huckleberry.

 

[msalm]

For any angle and all shots w/ a 30-06, the 180 no question…or the 175gr Terminal Ascent. W/ a bull quartering to, I’d want the 180.

 

[NorthIdahoDude]

Caveat: I have shot both into mud and such, but only ever killed a critter with regular (not LR) Accubonds. I voted for the plain old Accubond.

in the mud tests I've done - using wet mostly clay mud (rougher on the bullet than gel, but more realistic than water jugs, IMHO), the Accubonds consistently retain about 65 percent of weight, expanded nicely but not too crazy much, and penetrated remarkably deep. ABLRs retained about 45 percent of weight, expanded bigger, and thus did not penetrate as deep.

So, let's math -- a 110 grain Accubond out of a 25-06 would retain around 71 grains, vs a 168 .308 will retain around 75, and have a larger frontal area, so the 110 grain Accubond will almost certainly penetrate deeper. A 110 grain Accubond out of a 25-06 to be fair, would kill an elk 100% dead, but I'd presume it is not in the class of "oomph" most of us reach for when elk is on the menu (said a guy who's killed elk and moose and such with 303 British, 308 win, and 7x57, also not most people's idea of a top shelf elk rig).

If I was going to use an ABLR, I'd go at least to the 190 grain, which still won't retain as much mass or penetrate as deep as even my little humble 140 Accubond out of my 7x57.