Phase 4 tuning help

[trailblazer75]

I got a phase 4 29 and my shop really sucks. They aren't really interested in tuning a new bow out and just basically set you up at center shot and kick you out the door. (different topic...)

I'm fortunate enough to have a buddy who is good with bows, has a press and a vice and a paper tuning setup. That said I checked BH/ATA and it was spot on. Checked timing, perfect. I got it shooting bare shaft bullet holes with the rest set at 13/16 and both fat tophats on the left. Cut off the shop's D loop and set it dead center on the string with the rest having the arrow run perfectly through the berger hole. Bare shafts shoot great, I mean GREAT out to 20.

I'm using Q2I raptors and getting a hard tail right tear, which lead me to investigate and find that my fletching that is toward the riser at the 7-8 position (I'm a southpaw) is striking the centerguard. Like hard enough to rip fletchings off. Emailed mathews and they said to take it to a shop and let the shop decide. Well, like I said, my shop does not care. So my question is, what's the fix? Turn center guard to create clearance is my hunch, and in comparison to a V3X 29, my centerguard does seem to kick out a little further. What say you?

For a short fix I oriented my cock fletch to the 11 but what I'd like to find is a long term solution that provides actual clearance.

 

[Billy Goat]

Only long term fix I would use is vane rotation in an orientation that gives clearance.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I don't think the cable guard on that bow is adjustable. Orienting the vanes to increase clearance or switching to lower profile vanes are your only options. For a lefty shooting 3 vanes, a 3-7-11 o'clock orientation usually gives the most clearance.

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm left-handed and I use NAP Quikspin 2" Speed Hunter vanes quite a bit. I generally have to turn the arrows so that bottom left vane is somewhere around the 7 or 8 position for clearance. But that's also why I started experimenting with the Q2i Fusion Xii vanes (lower profile) and settled on the 2.1" in a 4-fletch. The 3" work fine as well, but I prefer the 2.1" 4-fletch.

 

[camelcluch]

I am a bit confused. The bow shoots great but your vanes contact and a different orientation fixes it? You don’t want to rotate the vane? Turn the vane and shoot. Why over complicate it? Shoot what shoots best. No one cares where your vanes point.

 

[trailblazer75]

I am a bit confused. The bow shoots great but your vanes contact and a different orientation fixes it? You don’t want to rotate the vane? Turn the vane and shoot. Why over complicate it? Shoot what shoots best. No one cares where your vanes point.

I care. lol. Honestly I’m concerned that it is indicative of a larger problem, such as the cable guard being misaligned.

 

[Billy Goat]

I care. lol. Honestly I’m concerned that it is indicative of a larger problem, such as the cable guard being misaligned.

It's not (atleast very highly unlikely), but I'm curious, what should the proper vane index be?




The centered cable guard does give less clearance than previous generations, however it allows the cams to rotate exactly dead even. That's part of the reason why you found it so easy to tune. Check to make sure the cable roller is between the axles, rollers parallel to the string.

 

[trailblazer75]

It's not (atleast very highly unlikely), but I'm curious, what should the proper vane index be?




The centered cable guard does give less clearance than previous generations, however it allows the cams to rotate exactly dead even. That's part of the reason why you found it so easy to tune. Check to make sure the cable roller is between the axles, rollers parallel to the string.

I will say, I compared it side by side with a right handed V3X 29 and to me it looks canted in slightly. The bottom side.

If mathews claim that it allows the cable to clear the fletchings but and allow the cams to rotate evenly is true, I’m doubtful. I had a V3X 33 and never had this issue. When I asked mathews directly, they had no guidance to give whatsoever, other than go to the shop. Which bugs me because I know that shop will just say “change your fletching orientation or use different fletchings.” Without acknowledging the fact that some of these bows clear that setup and some don’t. So why pay $1299 for a bow with that much inconsistency from bow to bow?

 

[Billy Goat]

I will say, I compared it side by side with a right handed V3X 29 and to me it looks canted in slightly. The bottom side.

If mathews claim that it allows the cable to clear the fletchings but and allow the cams to rotate evenly is true, I’m doubtful. I had a V3X 33 and never had this issue. When I asked mathews directly, they had no guidance to give whatsoever, other than go to the shop. Which bugs me because I know that shop will just say “change your fletching orientation or use different fletchings.” Without acknowledging the fact that some of these bows clear that setup and some don’t. So why pay $1299 for a bow with that much inconsistency from bow to bow?

Depending on where the top hats are, it will change the orientation of the cable guard to the shaft.


I still don't understand what the "proper" fletching orientation is. It's extremely common to clock vanes for clearance.


Get some measurements instead of eyeballing it. You should be able to lay a straightedge on the riser and get comparison measurements of where the cable guard is.

 

[trailblazer75]

Depending on where the top hats are, it will change the orientation of the cable guard to the shaft.


I still don't understand what the "proper" fletching orientation is. It's extremely common to clock vanes for clearance.


Get some measurements instead of eyeballing it. You should be able to lay a straightedge on the riser and get comparison measurements of where the cable guard is.

You have a great point there. I’ll measure off the risers and compare with a caliper. And yeah I know what you mean about the orientation. Maybe I’m overthinking.

I did move top hats to a fat on the left (top/bottom) orientation to try to clear it and had no joy.

 

[Billy Goat]

You have a great point there. I’ll measure off the risers and compare with a caliper. And yeah I know what you mean about the orientation. Maybe I’m overthinking.

I did move top hats to a fat on the left (top/bottom) orientation to try to clear it and had no joy.

The top hats aren't going to fix your clearance. They need to be where the setup tunes.

Just different limb deflections will alter the top hat positions, limbs aren't all exactly the same.
Just stating that's why you can have little differences in clearance.

 

[trailblazer75]

The top hats aren't going to fix your clearance. They need to be where the setup tunes.

Just different limb deflections will alter the top hat positions, limbs aren't all exactly the same.
Just stating that's why you can have little differences in clearance.

So you’re telling me that if the top hat orientation is to the left, moving the cams and strings to the right, that I’m not also moving them he arrow to the right? Thus away from the riser and cable guard?

I actually got it to tune up really well either way. Like fat left on top cam and fat right on bottom. Or fat top and bottom. Didn’t matter in terms of what my shaft presented.

 

[camelcluch]

I’m a lefty shooting a V3 31. Max stealths needed to be rotated a bit to get clearance. The bow paper tunes with fletching, bare shafts and broad heads.

 

[Billy Goat]

So you’re telling me that if the top hat orientation is to the left, moving the cams and strings to the right, that I’m not also moving them he arrow to the right? Thus away from the riser and cable guard?

I actually got it to tune up really well either way. Like fat left on top cam and fat right on bottom. Or fat top and bottom. Didn’t matter in terms of what my shaft presented.

You shouldn't be having opposing top hat configuration. If you are shimming the cams left or right, you should be moving both top and bottom cams in the same direction. You might not move them quite equal, but they should both be offset to the same side, unless you are stuck with the .100 and .075 top hats.


If you shim cams to the right, it will move your string to the right. Giving a little bit of clearance on your lefthanded bow. But that's not the solution.

 

[Billy Goat]

I'm think I'm realizing you don't have a top hat kit and are just swaping top hats around.

You are keeping them paired correct?

 

[trailblazer75]

You shouldn't be having opposing top hat configuration. If you are shimming the cams left or right, you should be moving both top and bottom cams in the same direction. You might not move them quite equal, but they should both be offset to the same side, unless you are stuck with the .100 and .075 top hats.


If you shim cams to the right, it will move your string to the right. Giving a little bit of clearance on your lefthanded bow. But that's not the solution.

This bow came from the factory with fat right on bottom and fat left on top.

 

[trailblazer75]

I'm think I'm realizing you don't have a top hat kit and are just swaping top hats around.

You are keeping them paired correct?

I paired them. They didn’t come that way from the factory. I will order a set of them so I can work with them for tuning. I have a phase 4 33 on the way so I could probably use them. So I’ve only used the 4 factory top hats.

 

[Billy Goat]

I paired them. They didn’t come that way from the factory. I will order a set of them so I can work with them for tuning. I have a phase 4 33 on the way so I could probably use them. So I’ve only used the 4 factory top hats.

How did you pair them?

 

[trailblazer75]

How did you pair them?

Fat hat to the left top and bottom. Skinnier to the right.

 

[Billy Goat]

Fat hat to the left top and bottom. Skinnier to the right.

Ok, so you are keeping them in the appropriate pairs I assume. You should have 2 that have a single line and 2 that have double lines. I'm assuming you know this, but just to state it, the pairs will have single and double lines in matching positions. Shim side of the sleeve, center of sleeve, and opposite of shim side of sleeve.