Pfizer clinical trial data: not good at all

[isItFallYet]

Whats the evidence for post-infection immunity being "better" than the vaccine?

This is a good question. Per the CDC

"...COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients"

Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized ...

This report describes mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients as having greater immunity from COVID-19 infection than previously infected, unvaccinated persons.

www.cdc.gov

and then there's this:
"Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare."

COVID-19 and Your Health

Symptoms, testing, what to do if sick, daily activities, and more.

www.cdc.gov

So if the first study was true, how the hell could the second link be accurate? Both from the CDC? Misinformation? Seems a bit contradictory.

 

[bpurtz]

Whats the evidence for post-infection immunity being "better" than the vaccine?

The Isreali study confirmed that natural immunity was better than vaccine only immunity - since you love posting links, here you go:

Science | AAAS

www.science.org

It doesn't seem like you listened to the podcast that @fwafwow posted earlier - those 3 doctors indicated that several studies about natural immunity exist - if you are actually interested in an expert opinion check out the 45 minute mark - better yet, you might consider listening to the entire podcast...

#189 - COVID Part 1: Current state of affairs, Omicron, and a search for the end game - Peter Attia

“Where's the humility? People are hungry for honesty right now.” —Marty Makary

peterattiamd.com

 

[MattB]

Mate, you are wrong in that. Read it on Pfizer’s own website:

Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study | Pfizer

Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis Analysis evaluated 94 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in trial participants Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with...

www.pfizer.com

For those who don’t want to read, the first bullet point says :

• Vaccine candidate was found to be more than 90% effective in preventing COVID-19 in participants without evidence of prior SARS-CoV-2 infection in the first interim efficacy analysis

Or from the CEO:

Today is a great day for science and humanity. The first set of results from our Phase 3 COVID-19 vaccine trial provides the initial evidence of our vaccine’s ability to prevent COVID-19,” said Dr. Albert Bourla, Pfizer Chairman and CEO.”

as I remember “prevent” means to “keep people from being infected”.

This was posted November 2020

What were they preventing in 90% of cases if not Covid?

“Prevent” is in reference to a symptomatic disease and not infection. Infection comes from the virus SARS-CoV-2. Note they do not use that in your quote. If the body does not effectively fight the infection, symptomatic disease can result. That disease is called COVID-19. This could not be more clear.

From Pfizer’s web sight:
“The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease.”

About Our Landmark Trial | Pfizer

The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease. This trial began July 27, 2020 and completed enrollment of 46,331 participants in January 2021. On November 18, Pfizer and BioNTech announced that...

www.pfizer.com

 

[lif]

We are over 300 posts into this and I’m still waiting for the data the clearly shows people are not dying or getting sick in other ways from the vaccine. The closest I’ve seen posted is the trial studies by Pfizer and moderna, which I’m sure they would never deceive us. Since neither has ever lied and sold dangerous medications in the past.

 

[FLATHEAD]

We are over 300 posts into this and I’m still waiting for the data the clearly shows people are not dying or getting sick in other ways from the vaccine. The closest I’ve seen posted is the trial studies by Pfizer and moderna, which I’m sure they would never deceive us. Since neither has ever lied and sold dangerous medications in the past.

The CDC doesnt have a real good track record either.

 

[bpurtz]

This is a good question. Per the CDC

"...COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients"

Laboratory-Confirmed COVID-19 Among Adults Hospitalized ...

This report describes mRNA COVID-19 vaccine recipients as having greater immunity from COVID-19 infection than previously infected, unvaccinated persons.

www.cdc.gov

The 3 doctors in this podcast dispute the CDC statement you posted at the 53 minute mark. Natural immunity is well discussed from 45 minutes and on:

#189 - COVID Part 1: Current state of affairs, Omicron, and a search for the end game - Peter Attia

“Where's the humility? People are hungry for honesty right now.” —Marty Makary

peterattiamd.com

 

[isItFallYet]

“Prevent” is in reference to a symptomatic disease and not infection. Infection comes from the virus SARS-CoV-2. Note they do not use that in your quote. If the body does not effectively fight the infection, symptomatic disease can result. That disease is called COVID-19. This could not be more clear.

From Pfizer’s web sight:
“The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease.”

About Our Landmark Trial | Pfizer

The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease. This trial began July 27, 2020 and completed enrollment of 46,331 participants in January 2021. On November 18, Pfizer and BioNTech announced that...

www.pfizer.com

Makes one wonder why Pfizer is lobbying amendments to the False Claims Act.

 

[lif]

The CDC doesnt have a real good track record either.

No one does publicly. That’s the biggest issue. It seems that everyone knows someone that had a very bad reaction to the vaccine or someone who got very sick or died from Covid after being vaccinated. Yet there is no clear data being kept. To call it safe because the CDC, Dr Fauci, and the Pharmaceutical companies say so isn’t quite what I hang my hat on. Anecdotal evidence has been demonized and common sense is being eliminated.

 

[lif]

Makes one wonder why Pfizer is lobbying amendments to the False Claims Act.

Or why the FDA was seeking a 55 year lock on public access to their studies and information about the vaccine.

 

[jmez]

Anecdotal observation would be a more correct statement. It is not evidence.

 

[ODB]

“Prevent” is in reference to a symptomatic disease and not infection. Infection comes from the virus SARS-CoV-2. Note they do not use that in your quote. If the body does not effectively fight the infection, symptomatic disease can result. That disease is called COVID-19. This could not be more clear.

From Pfizer’s web sight:
“The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease.”

About Our Landmark Trial | Pfizer

The Phase 3 clinical trial was designed to determine if the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective in preventing COVID-19 disease. This trial began July 27, 2020 and completed enrollment of 46,331 participants in January 2021. On November 18, Pfizer and BioNTech announced that...

www.pfizer.com

Not what the CDC says:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

They say: COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing infection, serious illness, and death. Most people who get COVID-19 are unvaccinated. However, since vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection, some people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19.


If it's not been about preventing infection all along, might call the CDC and let them know.


Not sure why it's hard for anyone to see how the goalpost has moved on the vaccines. People were under the impression, based on the language used by the people who invented the vaccines, that they were highly effective at preventing infection. Not just symptomatic or serious disease, but getting the goddam thing at all.

 

[IdahoElk]

I predict a year from now we'll still be disagreeing on this and some of these posters will be on their 5th-6th booster shot still telling others to "trust the science" while having totally wiped out immune systems.

 

[Fatcamp]

I predict a year from now we'll still be disagreeing on this and some of these posters will be on their 5th-6th booster shot still telling others to "trust the science" while having totally wiped out immune systems. while celebrating their Level 11 immune systems.

 

[BBob]

It may be that my posts are too blunt and/or poorly worded, as I’ve managed to be lumped in with anti-mask and anti-vax “conspiracy theorists” by questioning one aspect of the government’s handling of the pandemic. At the same time I suspect I’ve pissed everyone else off because I pointed out Peter McCullough and a RS member’s statement about the impossibility of getting Covid twice was based on the mischaracterization of a FOIA response that’s being repeated by others, including on Fox.

Nah! You're good Carry on!

 

[couesbitten]

We do want to incentivize people to make good health decisions to mitigate the spread of infectious disease.

Perhaps the least expensive and most effective health decision would be to improve your physical health and lose weight by exercising and eating healthy.

CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese

An overwhelming majority of people who have been hospitalized, needed a ventilator or died from Covid-19 have been overweight or obese, the CDC said.

www.cnbc.com

IMO, natural immunity is not recognized because the government has not figured out a way to regulate it or otherwise be involved.

Or perhaps because there's no way for big Pharma to make any money off of you if you don't get the jab.

 

[MattB]

Not what the CDC says:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

They say: COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing infection, serious illness, and death. Most people who get COVID-19 are unvaccinated. However, since vaccines are not 100% effective at preventing infection, some people who are fully vaccinated will still get COVID-19.


If it's not been about preventing infection all along, might call the CDC and let them know.


Not sure why it's hard for anyone to see how the goalpost has moved on the vaccines. People were under the impression, based on the language used by the people who invented the vaccines, that they were highly effective at preventing infection. Not just symptomatic or serious disease, but getting the goddam thing at all.

The CDC says that the initial Pfizer clinical trial was designed to test the prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infection? What you posted above does not say that.

From the initial EUA review memo for the Pfizer vaccine dated 11/20/20:
"Based on the totality of scientific evidence available, including data from adequate and well-controlled trials described in Section 4 of this review, it is reasonable to believe that the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (BNT162b2) may be effective in preventing such serious or life-threatening disease or condition that can be caused by SARS-CoV-2."

Note that this section references that the vaccine appears effective in preventing "serious or life-threatening disease or condition" and not "infection".

https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download

In looking at the CDC new room, it was not until 3/21 that there was mention of a study that demonstrated the vaccines provided protection from infection. From my perspective, it is not that the goalposts have moved, but the messaging had changed and that caused confusion in many who are not familiar with the relevant terminology. Unfortunately, some of these very people are using the notion of "breakthrough infections" as evidence the vaccines are ineffective when that was only a nice (but temporary) side benefit from their function and not their initial purpose. Hopefully that clarifies things for you.

 

[Wrench]

Yaaa...let's keep perpetuating the misinformation campaign until the damn virus mutates to where it takes out 50% of the planet. Then we will assess our quality of life.
My Grandfather spent his whole life in a wheelchair from polio and spoke many times about how he just missed the vaccine.
Lucky we didn't have morons on the radio when we defeated polio, smallpox, mumps, measles, rubella etc, now shingles. Soon to be Lyme disease, possibly AIDS.
Go Joe...you patriot!

And if your grandfather had 3 polio vaccinations yet still got polio....would you have slightly different feelings?

Asking for 200 million friends.

 

[JJJ]

Whats the evidence for post-infection immunity being "better" than the vaccine?


Can you source where Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5 are confirmed? Where did you learn these facts and how did you assess their accuracy?

Number 2 is true, but leaves out that the unvaccinated are still infected and experiencing higher rates of hospitalization and serious health issues.

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases...

After the COVID-19 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant reached predominance, fully vaccinated people had less risk of infection, hospitalization, and death.

www.cdc.gov

Nearly half of the hospital staff where my aunt runs the OR wing have quit the hospital over vax mandates. Janitors, nurses, the head of neuro-surgery, the head of cardiovascular surgeries, an OBGYN, I could go on. Is that a conspiracy theory or do you think anyone who disagrees with you is a flat out liar?

 

[Downeaster]

At times like these, I find it best to let Salty put a fine point on the issue at hand.

 

[260madman]

Why are the pro vaxxers worried about the nonvaxxers killing people? Nobody has an issue with it when it comes to the flu every year.

You guys could always move to Australia and work enforcement at the quarantine camps.