Peep Sight Hell (Redux many times over... Just pleading for a solution)...

[sndmn11]

Let's say the bow has 2000-3000 arrows through it. Is that enough to have the strings go out like this?

That's not even sniffing being shot out yet. I'd twist the strings and cables up to bring everything into spec, leave the peep out for 100 shots, and then put the peep back in. I'd also still like to see a picture of the peep because like @Reburn has mentioned, it is probably too tight.

 

[wildernessmaster]

That's not even sniffing being shot out yet. I'd twist the strings and cables up to bring everything into spec, leave the peep out for 100 shots, and then put the peep back in. I'd also still like to see a picture of the peep because like @Reburn has mentioned, it is probably too tight.

As I stated before the strings were Vapor Trails.

The string condition is good. I don't see a lot of wear on them or any serving (surprisingly).

The only rotation I have put in the strings is a half twist on the bottom (yesterday), other wise none others have been put in.

Diamond say the ATA "long" is 31 3/4" and I am just a tad shy of 32" (so I am nearly 1/4" over).

Here are picks of the peeps.

 

[doncarpenter]

As I stated before the strings were Vapor Trails.

The string condition is good. I don't see a lot of wear on them or any serving (surprisingly).

The only rotation I have put in the strings is a half twist on the bottom (yesterday), other wise none others have been put in.

Diamond say the ATA "long" is 31 3/4" and I am just a tad shy of 32" (so I am nearly 1/4" over).

Here are picks of the peeps.View attachment 255633View attachment 255634

When tying in the peep, you want the serving to come right up to point where the string splits, you don't want to have the serving trying to push the two parts back together, that will also cause peep rotation. Also, if you don't normally have it, tie two simple overhand knots over the middle of the peep and finish with a square knot, so three knots all together.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[Reburn]

As I stated before the strings were Vapor Trails.

The string condition is good. I don't see a lot of wear on them or any serving (surprisingly).

The only rotation I have put in the strings is a half twist on the bottom (yesterday), other wise none others have been put in.

Diamond say the ATA "long" is 31 3/4" and I am just a tad shy of 32" (so I am nearly 1/4" over).

Here are picks of the peeps.View attachment 255633View attachment 255634

Look no one says it but installing peeps where they dont rotate at draw isnt a pain. Some times takes me 3 or 4 times. I cant tell you how many times I have tied in a peep too tight and had it rotate on me and had to cut it out. Once they are set though with good strings they dont move or rotate. Not attacking you but I would bet money the way the peep is tied in is causing it to rotate. slide the knots away from the peep where the strings naturally come back together. Then put your bow on the draw board and see if the peep rotates while drawing.

#1 your bow not pulling 70 when limb bolts are maxed out it telling of a problem. If it was within 2 lbs either way so 68-72 I wouldnt be concerened. I would get new strings and start fresh. BUT you dont have anything to loose but time trying to fix the set you have. I would go ahead and twist up the cables to get to 70 Lbs. If the bow loses poundage after that you know for sure that the cables and string are creeping. ATA, Brace Height specs are loose. If I am within a 1/4"ish in either way I leave them alone if the bow is pulling the proper weight and the draw length is lining up. I use the last chance archery HS3 hand held scale personally and like it.

String wear and creep are not mutually exclusive.

Remember when your done messing with everything to re time your cams and re tune your bow as everything will be out when you twist cables to raise lbs.

 

[wildernessmaster]

When tying in the peep, you want the serving to come right up to point where the string splits, you don't want to have the serving trying to push the two parts back together, that will also cause peep rotation. Also, if you don't normally have it, tie two simple overhand knots over the middle of the peep and finish with a square knot, so three knots all together.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

Not sure what you mean by "want the serving to come right up to the point where the string splits"... Wouldn't that be wherever the top of the serving is?

Can you explain the "two simple overhand knots..."?? Not sure I get what you saying.

BTW, I didn't tie this. The Bowtech shop in Bozeman Mt did.

 

[Reburn]

Not sure what you mean by "want the serving to come right up to the point where the string splits"... Wouldn't that be wherever the top of the serving is?

Can you explain the "two simple overhand knots..."?? Not sure I get what you saying.

BTW, I didn't tie this. The Bowtech shop in Bozeman Mt did.

Gently but firmly pull the knots away from the peep until the halves of the string are naturally back together.

you will have to google. overhand knot and square knot.

I spent alot of time setting up my VXR that came setup from the shop that I bought it from. I had to redo everthing that they did to get the bow where I wanted it.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Look no one says it but installing peeps where they dont rotate at draw is a pain. Some times takes me 3 or 4 times. I cant tell you how many times I have tied in a peep too tight and had it rotate on me and had to cut it out. Once they are set though with good strings they dont move or rotate. Not attacking you but I would bet money the way the peep is tied in is causing it to rotate. slide the knots away from the peep where the strings naturally come back together. Then put your bow on the draw board and see if the peep rotates while drawing.

#1 your bow not pulling 70 when limb bolts are maxed out it telling of a problem. If it was within 2 lbs either way so 68-72 I wouldnt be concerened. I would get new strings and start fresh. BUT you dont have anything to loose but time trying to fix the set you have. I would go ahead and twist up the cables to get to 70 Lbs. If the bow loses poundage after that you know for sure that the cables and string are creeping. ATA, Brace Height specs are loose. If I am within a 1/4"ish in either way I leave them alone if the bow is pulling the proper weight and the draw length is lining up. I use the last chance archery HS3 hand held scale personally and like it.

String wear and creep are not mutually exclusive.

Remember when your done messing with everything to re time your cams and re tune your bow as everything will be out when you twist cables to raise lbs.

I am very much appreciating your contribution. My original goal was to figure out how to get Peeps right (not JUST fix this issue) as I am building 3 bows for next season. So your input is valuable.

The peep was not my work. It was a bow shop's work. So you are saying it looks too tight? If so, why does every video about tying a peep show them snugging and re-snugging their serving up tight ?

The ATA 1/4" was it was a 1/4" over the accepted "long" spec for this bow. So it is probably 1/2" or more out of normal spec.

 

[sndmn11]

Your peep knots are too tight. I have never liked that method of tying in a peep because you can cause rotation, and manipulate it as well, simply by sliding the knots to and away from the peep. I prefer the linked method below because it locks the peep in while allowing the gap in bundles to be how it wants to be. I would still get the strings and cables twisted up to return to the bow to factory specs, pull the peep, shoot it some to settle the new twists, and then tie the peep in like below.

As I stated before the strings were Vapor Trails.

People on here have been beyond patient in trying to help you out, you are not polite about getting help. What I quoted above is a great example; I didn't ask who made the strings, I read that before in the part you are referring to "as stated before". There's no need to be confrontational or argumentative when asking for help and then receiving it. There are people on here who genuinely want to help you simply for the betterment of the hunting community, and there have been times where your written attitude makes it very difficult.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Gently but firmly pull the knots away from the peep until the halves of the string are naturally back together.

you will have to google. overhand knot and square knot.

I spent alot of time setting up my VXR that came setup from the shop that I bought it from. I had to redo everthing that they did to get the bow where I wanted it.

Ha ha ... I am a bow idiot, but not that big of a general idiot not to know what an overhand and square knot are!! That cracked me up... Such is wide interpretation of written words!!

On the overhand and square... I was not picturing what you were saying as to where to put them. Sorry if I led you believe I didn't know what the knots were!

Yeah I am pretty much figuring out bow shop builds are shit (excuse my french). There are probably some good ones, but generally not so much. That's why I am trying to do this all myself now. I think half of my delays in learning have been stupid'isms bow shops did with my bows.

 

[sndmn11]

When we say "too tight" we are meaning they are too close to the peep it self on each side. In other words, the triangle space in between knot and peep is too tight.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Your peep knots are too tight. I have never liked that method of tying in a peep because you can cause rotation, and manipulate it as well, simply by sliding the knots to and away from the peep. I prefer the linked method below because it locks the peep in while allowing the gap in bundles to be how it wants to be. I would still get the strings and cables twisted up to return to the bow to factory specs, pull the peep, shoot it some to settle the new twists, and then tie the peep in like below.

People on here have been beyond patient in trying to help you out, you are not polite about getting help. What I quoted above is a great example; I didn't ask who made the strings, I read that before in the part you are referring to "as stated before". There's no need to be confrontational or argumentative when asking for help and then receiving it. There are people on here who genuinely want to help you simply for the betterment of the hunting community, and there have been times where your written attitude makes it very difficult.

Whoa... Slow the tone down there buddy. I am not your child and you don't get to chastise me. I am not upset at anyone on here nor have I been. I have been trying to learn and ask questions. I restate things (like that) because often I get response where people HAVE NOT read everything. You are taking that way off the scale of my intent.

If you have lost your patience, please quit responding.

The only time my (and not in this thread) "written attitude" is difficult is when I get dickhead laptop rangers who think they can read black and white words and figure out my attitude or meaning - in other words they are asses and apply their own interpretation; or when someone wants to apply their morality to what I am saying and do a drive by response in any way; or finally when someone is just an clear ass.

Otherwise I am a pretty nice guy and try to equally contribute back in positive way. But punch me and I will punch you back.

So I am clear, AND NO ONE is unclear on my meaning, tone, demeanor, etc... I am listening to everyone on here. I am not defensive, nor do I feel attacked (you did chide me like a child but we are square as of now), and I am trying to learn. There is just so much cruft, verbiage, do it this way - no do it that way, etc in archery I am wading through it and asking the questions I need.

Now here is a big kiss so we can make up?

 

[Brendan]

One thing I've started doing: I do not use knots at the top and bottom like that where the string splits and comes back together. As mentioned above if you put any pressure on the "split" I don't think it's as consistent. I go around the peep itself (fairly tight here though) and never have an issue once set.I do put a mark with a sharpie on my string just above and below the thread I use to tie on as a visual check that it hasn't moved, and it never does.

 

[wildernessmaster]

When we say "too tight" we are meaning they are too close to the peep it self on each side. In other words, the triangle space in between knot and peep is too tight.

Gotcha. Now is there a way to measure, see, etc this (I have not had a chance to view the video) if its in there I will check it out.

 

[wildernessmaster]

One thing I've started doing: I do not use knots at the top and bottom like that where the string splits and comes back together. As mentioned above if you put any pressure on the "split" I don't think it's as consistent. I go around the peep itself (fairly tight here though) and never have an issue once set.I do put a mark with a sharpie on my string just above and below the thread I use to tie on as a visual check that it hasn't moved, and it never does.

Let me make sure I am understanding. I think this is what BG was telling me in another thread... You don't serve it like it is in the picture you tie the peep directly to the strings on the right/left sides? I saw a video on that but isn't that really really hard to get off if you have to? At least that is what the video implied.

On a related note... When you are setting your peep, you need to draw the bow, and even shoot it a little to make sure the peep is right and is positioned right. You need it tied in to do that (or risk loosing a peep or eye), so is there a quick/easy way to tie in to do all that set up work - then you could do a more permanent tie like you mentioned.

 

[wildernessmaster]

Your peep knots are too tight. I have never liked that method of tying in a peep because you can cause rotation, and manipulate it as well, simply by sliding the knots to and away from the peep. I prefer the linked method below because it locks the peep in while allowing the gap in bundles to be how it wants to be. I would still get the strings and cables twisted up to return to the bow to factory specs, pull the peep, shoot it some to settle the new twists, and then tie the peep in like below.

People on here have been beyond patient in trying to help you out, you are not polite about getting help. What I quoted above is a great example; I didn't ask who made the strings, I read that before in the part you are referring to "as stated before". There's no need to be confrontational or argumentative when asking for help and then receiving it. There are people on here who genuinely want to help you simply for the betterment of the hunting community, and there have been times where your written attitude makes it very difficult.

Let me thank you for the first part and video...

 

[Brendan]

Let me make sure I am understanding. I think this is what BG was telling me in another thread... You don't serve it like it is in the picture you tie the peep directly to the strings on the right/left sides? I saw a video on that but isn't that really really hard to get off if you have to? At least that is what the video implied.

On a related note... When you are setting your peep, you need to draw the bow, and even shoot it a little to make sure the peep is right and is positioned right. You need it tied in to do that (or risk loosing a peep or eye), so is there a quick/easy way to tie in to do all that set up work - then you could do a more permanent tie like you mentioned.

I take one piece of string and tie it around the center / circumference of the peep. That's it. (I have added top and bottom serving above/below the split - but I take care to make sure it does not add pressure to the split itself, I just don't find it's needed and usually end up leaving it out and marking the string.)

I do that for break in, and if I need to slide the peep or move it, I just cut and re-tie after everything is settled and tune is final. But, that is usually not the case. Break in adjustments are almost always to the string / twists and D-loop not the peep.

 

[Brendan]

Just for the record this method works fine too (fully serving it in), but just a little more work. Starting from bottom to top:

Nail knot below the split, maybe 5-10 wraps and end right as the string splits, no pressure on split. Wrap maybe 10 wraps to bottom of peep, around peep 5 times, same number of wraps going up the opposite leg / split on top. Finish with nail knot on the top with same number of wraps.

If I do this, it's only after verifying string has settled, peep location is good, and I'm not getting any rotation.

Can't remember if someone posted this, Dudley's video is very good and easy too:

How to Tie in a Peep Sight - Nock On Archery

Properly securing your peep sight is extremely important. Not only can an unsecured peep sight shift in the string affecting accuracy and consistency, it can also fly out of the string when your bow is shot possibly injuring yourself or others. In this segment, John Dudley teaches how to...

nockonarchery.com

 

[Reburn]

Gotcha. Now is there a way to measure, see, etc this (I have not had a chance to view the video) if its in there I will check it out.

The pressure can be so small that you cant see the triangle get bigger but the peep will stop rotating while drawing. To visulaize better push the top knot towards the peep and watch the peep turn. Push it away and watch it turn the other way. This is why that particular method of tying in peeps is mostly discouraged.

 

[doncarpenter]

Not sure what you mean by "want the serving to come right up to the point where the string splits"... Wouldn't that be wherever the top of the serving is?

Can you explain the "two simple overhand knots..."?? Not sure I get what you saying.

BTW, I didn't tie this. The Bowtech shop in Bozeman Mt did.

I know this has been covered in depth by others on this thread already but just for a visual aid and for perpetuity I will add this.

In the first picture I added arrows on your serving to show that it's putting pressure on the natural "V" that is created when the string is split by the peep. Because the string is twisted putting extra pressure on this "V" causes more twisting, and like Redburn stated, you can test this for yourself by just pinching the short end of the "V" and watching your peep twist.

The second picture is from my Traverse. You can see that my serving is uniform in diameter and doesn't become a cone shape.

Edit: just to be clear, there are a ton of correct ways to tie in a peep, my system works for me, and is by no means the "best way".

I should have been more clear about the knots. When I tie over the center of the peep, I tie a double overhand knot on the top, then a double overhand knot on the bottom, then finish with a square knot on the top of the peep. So, it is essentially wrapped three times around the peep itself.

The knots for the both sides of the peep are very similar, but it's just overhand knots and not doubles. Tie them alternating over and under the string working away from the peep. Five or six sets usually is sufficient. Finish with a square knot.

What your shop did is common. They don't tie around the middle of the peep and then put pressure on the "V's" to keep it from flying out of the string every time to shoot the bow.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[sndmn11]

You need it tied in to do that (or risk loosing a peep or eye), so is there a quick/easy way to tie in to do all that set up work - then you could do a more permanent tie like you mentioned.

The constrictor knot I linked in the video will accomplish this, just snip and burn after pulling the tag ends. You don't need to do the half hitches up and down on either side to keep the peep secured IN the string, their purpose is to lock the height. It will slide up and down a waxed string with a gentle constrictor knot around the peep in the groove, and when it is where you want, cut that knot and redo the tie in fully as show in the video.

Also, if you are going to slide the peep up and down within the string, it will be much friendlier to the string if a helper does so while you are at full draw. There is less tension on the string than when the bow is at rest.