Painless load development (mine)

I will be starting development with new Alpha brass 308 cases necked down for 243win. If I don't run up the charge towards pressure, but towards speed (ie 3000fps with 95gr NBTs) would speed change with subsequent firings? Based on your response I would assume so, and it makes sense to rerun the testing once brass is fired
I’m curious as well. I’m new to reloading and was expecting the opposite. More room for powder with an expanded case was my thought process… will be curious to experiment with my once fired brass
In my experience, speed and pressure increase on 2nd firing vs virgin brass. It is theorized that some of the energy on first firing is absorbed by the case expanding to the chamber. Once cases are formed and shoulders are properly bumped back only .002-3", there's less expansion of the case and an increase in peak pressure/velocity. When I did my temp testing this winter I used my initial established charge in virgin brass of 58gr @ 88°F 10 shot avg velocity 2933fps-
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at 36°F the avg dropped to 2893fps, so ~.77fps/°F powder rating.
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In 1x fired and prepped brass 58gr @ 38°F avg 2947fps and had consistent bolt lift (group also opened up, probably still within the variability).
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Dropping the charge to 56.5gr @ 29°F avg 2857fps and group went back to .6" with smooth extraction and no pressure signs.
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Take from that what you will.

To me, what the last few posts have been suggesting is not “painless load development.” Anything that involves fire forming all your brass before you start “reloading for real” is the opposite of “painless.” Unless there is a really good reason to fire forming your brass - like if you have a custom or wildcat chamber - it is a pointless exercise that won’t result in measurable improvement for most shooters.

But, if you insist upon it, then my recommendation is to go buy 100-200 rounds of factory ammo and use it all up in sighting in and practice. Then reload it. That will at least save you the time of hand loading a bunch of cartridges that you think aren’t good enough for “real use.”

Of course, if you do that, you might discover that you don’t actually need to reload to get acceptable results. I have a .270 Winchester that shoots the Remington factory 130-grain loads under an inch at 100 yards. I’ve been sitting on 600 Sierra .277 bullets for 25 years because it turned out it wasn’t worth my time to reload them. I have something like 400 once-fired .270 brass just waiting for the time that it makes sense to reload for it.

My standard practice when I buy any new rifle starts with buying 200 loaded cartridges for it, using those as a basis for baseline accuracy, bullet weight preferences, etc. Once I establish that is good, I get enough components to reload that brass about four times each. When I shoot a thousand rounds from a rifle, then, maybe, I will get some “good brass” for it. But with the number of rifles I own, that hasn’t happened yet.


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“Keep on keepin’ on…”
It's literally the painless method with a powder charge check/adjustment on 2nd firing to stay out of pressure..
 
Used to hate reloading because of all the nitpicky stuff I thought I needed to do. Decided to give this method a try.

6.5CM 130 TMK H4350 once fired Hornady brass from factory loads.

Tikka super lite cut to 18” and suppressed.

Loaded one round at max, one .5 below, and one 1.0 below. Seated book length which was right at boattail to neck/shoulder junction.

Fired each one lowest to highest. No pressure at max so loaded 10 at max. It works. IMG_7862.jpeg
 
Noslers, 7mm mags, old winnys, sounds like you are having a relapse into Fuddsville

Haha. Where do you think I started? And why would you think I ever left?

I average between 4,000 and 8,000 magnum rounds a year- depending on where one draws the line at “magnum”. Most of those are 300 win mag, PRC, and Norma; quite a few are 338L and Norma. A smattering of 7 PRC. Too many are 50BMG.
 
My load dev has been gravitating towards this even before i heard of this painless method.
Because I build rifles, I shoot almost all of them to at least get a sense of accuracy potential.
I can't tell you how many times I've simply looked in my Nosler manual, picked a powder I have in the velocity range I want, picked the middle charge if the cartridge is new to me or max charge if I've worked with it before.
After that, seat bullet to .020" off lands or mag length, whichever will be the limiter and shoot 5.
Doing that, I can't think of a single time accuracy wasn't at least acceptable, sometimes even after more load dev, it was where it ended up anyway.

If I'm doing actual load dev, I'd start with a pressure string like stated here.

So for science, I put together a RSS 223 to try all the things. I've never played with Tikkas or a 223 shooting heavies so I wanted to try it.
As far as loading, I tried the painless method and the "internet" method for comparison in one rifle.
In the end, both methods arrived at the same thing, one just uses up A LOT more time and components.

I tried several powders and bullets with 5 rnd groups. it was very apparent if it might work or not. If it looked promising I'd shoot two 10 rnd groups with the labradar just to add data.

At the end, the Sierra 77HPBT, 77TMK and 73 ELDM shot the best in that order across multiple powders, the margin wasn't much though.
I chose the 73 because I can get it significantly cheaper than the other two and plan on shooting several thousand this year.

I tried all the usual powders and chose the one that gave both accuracy and velocity.

I knew I would be limited to 2.6-ish for mag length but I tried seating depth changes just to see. Pretty much the same accuracy or a touch worse. I didnt see a significant gain for sure. I didn't spend too much time on it after the first 2 bullets due to time constraints.

At the end, using group size as a go/no go is a better indicator of whether a given combo will work or not. Just don't get lost in the weeds chasing the "one hole".

Obviously other factors have to be considered like velocity. One combo was by far shooting smaller but was way to slow for what I wanted.

One thing that worked in my favor(usually the opposite) is this rifle shoots tighter WITH a suppressor.
Bare or with brake it's 1"-1.25" avg. of 10. With suppressor(2 so far) it's 1" or less for 10.

It appears the industry and us shooters need to adjust our expectation to what is actually realistic and useful.
It does appear that shift is starting to happen but it won't be a fast transition judging by how long previous notions hang on.

1"-.224" =.776"
Sub ¼ MIL all day if I do my part 🤣
 

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