Painless load development (mine)

Sauer 100 6.5 Creed quick n dirty

Hornady brass, Win LRP

I wanted to shoot the 130 ELDM or bust. Nosler lists 43gr as max for H4350. I loaded 4 @42.5 and 4 @43.0, .025" inside mag length.
Checked it wasn't in the lands with sharpie, was good so I shot them @ 100yds.

Bore sighted, shot 42.5-good
adjusted, shot 43-also good but flatter primers and decent velocity of 2804 avg.

Ran home and loaded 20 more @ 43gr.
slight adjustment and shot ten @ 100 and 10 @ 200.

just over 1" @ 100 but closer to 3" @ 200. I think that is partly because I was shooting at a ¾" dot which is smaller than the POA in the scope. Maven RS1.2 BTW

So I'll load more, true my data and take it bear hunting soon.
 

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Hey @Formidilosus This might be a stupid question. But what is your experience with this loading style in an AR?
I havent loaded for an AR too much, but have a 6Arc that I am getting ready to work on.
Are the pressure signs similar? With out having Bolt lift what else is to be looked for on the AR platform for pressures.
 
Hey @Formidilosus This might be a stupid question. But what is your experience with this loading style in an AR?
I havent loaded for an AR too much, but have a 6Arc that I am getting ready to work on.
Are the pressure signs similar? With out having Bolt lift what else is to be looked for on the AR platform for pressures.

AR’s show pressure much quicker. The same general signs- ejector marks, flattened/blown primers, case head swipes, etc. I would not go above book max, and in gas guns I drop to the middle of the charge range listed and work up.
 
Did not rebut any of the experiences shared here.
The guests were quite interesting and I pretty much agree with what they were saying, but on the other hand that host has to be on ice, he couldn’t stop posturing and farking around with his hands😂
 
Here is my most recent experience with the painless load development method.
6CM 16 in PBB barrel
108 ELD
New Starline brass with zero case prep
41g of h4350
CCI 200
COL 2.79
Shots 10-20 through the barrel are shown below. I think
 

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Here is my most recent experience with the painless load development method.
6CM 16 in PBB barrel
108 ELD
New Starline brass with zero case prep
41g of h4350
CCI 200
COL 2.79
Shots 10-20 through the barrel are shown below. I think
Do you know velocity?
 
The measure I showed is the Harrell's 90 Culver measure. I got it just under 10 years ago, it has gone up in price from $209.99 to $230 in that time. It's the cheapest measure Harrell's makes.

I measure powder three ways, and honestly, the Harrell's is my least used of the three due to my workflow, but I still can't imagine getting rid of it for reasons I'll elaborate on below.

First, let's look at repeatability. I chose four powders to test:
H1000 - Large stick extruded
Varget - medium stick extruded
8208 XBR - small stick extruded
Leverevolution - ball

Obviously there are plenty of powders in between, but this should show a decent representation of the performance.

For this test I left the micrometer at one setting (54.75), dumped powder in, then threw 30 charges and weighed them on my FX120i (a lab scale that reads down to .02 grains and is well behaved for anyone unfamiliar). I didn't do any trick double tapping of the handle or body that I've read about anyone doing, I didn't discount throws that had some kernel binding, I didn't even throw a few to get it settled initially. Filled it up with powder and went for it. My results were:

View attachment 615255

I've done test's like this before, and am not surprised by these results. Even with H1000, I'm perfectly happy with this type of performance for:

Anything I do to 600 (I don't compete in the accuracy disciplines at 600).
Anything I do with a 223, my highest volume round (If I was trying to win a PRS match with one, I'd weigh, but I have yet to do that)
Club matches, especially with a powder like 8208 (or 4895 which throws pretty similar).

Three things really separate the Harrell's from say an RCBS thrower for me:
- It has a micrometer adjustment that clicks, is repeatable, and is linear
- It does seem to be more accurate/less particular about how you run it
- It clamps onto a flat edge instead of requiring a stand

For serious competition beyond 600 I weigh them, but with 8208 or 4895 it's pretty hard to tell the difference on target.

The Micrometer (at 54.75 here):

View attachment 615257

The micrometer is very repeatable, and most extruded powders are ~ 1.75 on the mic (or 7 clicks) per grain. So if I'm trying to throw 40.0 grains, I guess and throw one, lets say I get 38.5 grains. I'd add 10 clicks and throw again. After the third throw I should just be throwing a few to confirm I'm not a click off before I mass produce. And after I do that ONCE, I write down the mic number with my load data and can go back to it immediately, throw one or two to confirm, and I'm mass producing again.

I mentioned I don't use the Harrel's a ton anymore for production (I'll get to that), but what I can't live without it for is load development. I can't shoot that close to my house, and I am pretty impatient with load development and want to have it done in one range trip. I do a little homework, finding a seating depth that's either .020"-.030" off the lands or whatever fits in the mag, then I find charge ranges I think are appropriate and quickly map the Harrell's mic to them, here's one from my notes I did from a 6.5 PRC from a while back:

View attachment 615258

Then I get to the range, load and shoot (hopefully over the chrono) getting something like this:

View attachment 615259

Once I get home, I'll throw a handful at wherever I landed and write down the weight for reference as well.


For anyone loading in decent volume that isn't ONLY loading 1000yd level competition ammo, AND is loading single stage I'd definitely recommend considering something similar. The reason I don't use mine for production much is that I load everything on a progressive, and it's either using a powder funnel and the FX-120i w/ Autotrickler V2 as shown here:

View attachment 615262

I can do 200+ rounds an hour with prepped brass on that setup, pretty relaxed and weighing charges more or less to the kernel. Or...

I set it up with the Hornady thrower with the case activated powder measure as shown here:

View attachment 615263

It's a bit less accurate and a bit more finicky to get dialed in. It does have a micrometer that works pretty well, and once I get it set it often stays there for 1,000+ rounds. And I only use it for 8208 or finer. It's pretty easy to exceed 300 rounds an hour with prepped brass and being relaxed about it.

I can stick the Harrell's in the powder funnel and use it that way; and I have in the past. However, my Autotrickler is so dialed at this point that for this workflow the Harrell's doesn't really save any time.


Can confirm the Harrels is awesome.

Thanks Carl.
 
Pretty pleased that not only did this new load shoot well over 10 rounds, but I also didn't have to bother re-zeroing the rifle. I'm curious how many different loads folks are running per rifle. I have BTHPs to save money for practice, but rezeroing to account for POI shifts between loads once things are solid now seems like kind of a pain. Are y'all switching between bullets much, or finding a load that shoots and sticking with that indefinitely? Screenshot 2025-06-11 at 5.02.39 PM.png
 
Pretty pleased that not only did this new load shoot well over 10 rounds, but I also didn't have to bother re-zeroing the rifle. I'm curious how many different loads folks are running per rifle. I have BTHPs to save money for practice, but rezeroing to account for POI shifts between loads once things are solid now seems like kind of a pain. Are y'all switching between bullets much, or finding a load that shoots and sticking with that indefinitely? View attachment 892579


I switch bullets often just to get an idea on performance for my application. Yes, it can be a pain in the ass. Pick your "base" load and write down the zero information in your log or spin your turrets to make that dead nuts zero on your rifle. From there, keep a log on the different charges and what their zero is. That's the best way I've found. You could even tape your scope and write it on there.
 
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