Painless load development (mine)

[TimberHunter]

I probably do some unnecessary steps honestly. But start with virgin brass

1. Chamfer inside/outside of necks (this is mandatory. Especially inside)

2. Moly inside of neck and then expand .0005 under bullet diameter. Example. .2425 mandrel for 243 bullets.

3. Seat primer.

4. This one might be unnecessary for the virgin brass, but I like consistency. Brush inside of necks with nylon brush, and then moly inside of necks.

5. Add powder, seat bullets.




Fired brass is pretty similar. Except full length size, with a bushing that leaves the neck .001-.002 under mandrel diameter.

I anneal and trim and all that shit, but it’s not totally necessary honestly.

Most important step IMO is probably to brush the necks with a nylon brush before seating bullets. Neck tension consistency is the most important driver of accuracy and lower ES that I’ve found.


A simple once fired process would be

Lube

FL size

Mandrel

Brush Necks

Seat primers

Thanks for the info! Have you seen much benefit to a FL bushing / mandrel setup vs a standard FL die with expanding button? Currently messing with a standard Fl setup vs a Redding body die plus Lee collet(neck sizer) but haven’t tried the bushing and mandrel setup yet


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[huntnful]

Thanks for the info! Have you seen much benefit to a FL bushing / mandrel setup vs a standard FL die with expanding button? Currently messing with a standard Fl setup vs a Redding body die plus Lee collet(neck sizer) but haven’t tried the bushing and mandrel setup yet


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I would not even mess with a body sizer and neck sizer. Just a regular full length die that accepts neck bushings, so you can get the right bushing so you’re not unnecessarily over sizing the necks.

The mandrel that comes with the FL die is fine, but it isn’t ideal for me. I like to expand as my last step, and I don’t like case lube in my necks either.

So I lube, FL size, media tumble like 20 minutes to dry lube off, brush necks, moly inside necks, and then expand. And then just leave the moly in the necks.



This is the moly and media from 21st Centery. Also get my mandrels from them. I swirl one of these cloth brushes in the media and then spin it inside the necks. Using do 5 at a time, and then dip the brush back in.

 

[yycyak]

So hear me out before flipping chairs, but:

Have you tried doing none-of-that?

I'm mostly dumb, but I'm smart enough to tell you know your stuff, and are squared away. To me it would be interesting to see the contrast between all of the things/steps you're doing here, and a "None-of-that" batch.

In other words, take 20 once-fired (or 6x-fired, whatever) brass, put some primers and powder in them, seat a bullet, and go shoot. No moly, lube, mandrels, brushing, tumbling, cleaning. Do your Step 3 and Step 5, and that's it.

It would be nifty to quantify the difference (if any) between the "Super-Sterile" and "Bubba" reloads.

Full disclosure: I've done this. There wasn't any difference in my groups, but I'm also dumb and not the best shot, and was field shooting. I'd love to see someone who IS a good shot, and who is particular in the reloading room, do this A/B test. (Someone other than @Formidilosus, cause he's just an anonymous internet nobody cult leader pretender. /s )

I probably do some unnecessary steps honestly. But start with virgin brass

1. Chamfer inside/outside of necks (this is mandatory. Especially inside)

2. Moly inside of neck and then expand .0005 under bullet diameter. Example. .2425 mandrel for 243 bullets.

3. Seat primer.

4. This one might be unnecessary for the virgin brass, but I like consistency. Brush inside of necks with nylon brush, and then moly inside of necks.

5. Add powder, seat bullets.




Fired brass is pretty similar. Except full length size, with a bushing that leaves the neck .001-.002 under mandrel diameter.

I anneal and trim and all that shit, but it’s not totally necessary honestly.

Most important step IMO is probably to brush the necks with a nylon brush before seating bullets. Neck tension consistency is the most important driver of accuracy and lower ES that I’ve found.


A simple once fired process would be

Lube

FL size

Mandrel

Brush Necks

Seat primers

 

[Jimbee]

So hear me out before flipping chairs, but:

Have you tried doing none-of-that?

I'm mostly dumb, but I'm smart enough to tell you know your stuff, and are squared away. To me it would be interesting to see the contrast between all of the things/steps you're doing here, and a "None-of-that" batch.

In other words, take 20 once-fired (or 6x-fired, whatever) brass, put some primers and powder in them, seat a bullet, and go shoot. No moly, lube, mandrels, brushing, tumbling, cleaning. Do your Step 3 and Step 5, and that's it.

It would be nifty to quantify the difference (if any) between the "Super-Sterile" and "Bubba" reloads.

Full disclosure: I've done this. There wasn't any difference in my groups, but I'm also dumb and not the best shot, and was field shooting. I'd love to see someone who IS a good shot, and who is particular in the reloading room, do this A/B test. (Someone other than @Formidilosus, cause he's just an anonymous internet nobody cult leader pretender. /s )

I might try this over a chronograph. I'm genuinely curious how much of a difference there would be. I don't have any virgin brass for the gun I'd try though.

 

[ddowning]

I would like to see this as well. I don't care about chrono numbers though. I want to see chipped paint on steel at distance. Chronograph numbers are for internet creds. The only thing that matters is where the bullets land.

 

[huntnful]

So hear me out before flipping chairs, but:

Have you tried doing none-of-that?

I'm mostly dumb, but I'm smart enough to tell you know your stuff, and are squared away. To me it would be interesting to see the contrast between all of the things/steps you're doing here, and a "None-of-that" batch.

In other words, take 20 once-fired (or 6x-fired, whatever) brass, put some primers and powder in them, seat a bullet, and go shoot. No moly, lube, mandrels, brushing, tumbling, cleaning. Do your Step 3 and Step 5, and that's it.

It would be nifty to quantify the difference (if any) between the "Super-Sterile" and "Bubba" reloads.

Full disclosure: I've done this. There wasn't any difference in my groups, but I'm also dumb and not the best shot, and was field shooting. I'd love to see someone who IS a good shot, and who is particular in the reloading room, do this A/B test. (Someone other than @Formidilosus, cause he's just an anonymous internet nobody cult leader pretender. /s )

I haven’t flat done none of it at one particular time honestly. I just slowly added in things, and compared them along the way. Like I’ve brushed 10 necks and not brushed 10 necks, then went and shot both side by side. Group was smaller and ES was lower from brushing the necks. Maybe a fluke… but it also literally takes 3 minutes to do 100 cases and you can physically feel the difference when seating bullets. I also just wiped cases off and not tumbled. That makes zero difference. I just tumble so I don’t have to wipe down 100’s of cases lol.

The mandrel stuff isn’t that necessary. You can just use a bushing that puts your neck ID where you want it. I just like the idea of the imperfections being pushed outwards by the mandrel as a last step, as opposed to them being pushed inward by a bushing.

I’m also way OCD, obviously, lol. So some things just make sense in my mind, so I don’t/can’t skip them hahaha.

 

[huntnful]

I would like to see this as well. I don't care about chrono numbers though. I want to see chipped paint on steel at distance. Chronograph numbers are for internet creds. The only thing that matters is where the bullets land.

I literally JUST prepped my last 100 pieces of alpha brass yesterday. Would have been very easy to not touch 20 pieces and load them and shoot them for a test. Dammit!

And I agree about the chrono numbers. I just run a chrono all the time because it’s easy and I like the info. I just care that they hit close on steel. That 1/4 MOA group at 600 yards had an ES of like 60fps. And just loaded up 200 rounds of the same exact load lol. It’s not the end all be all for me. How it shoots is what actually matter. But huge velocity swings (bad combustion) does just show up at 1200 yards normally

 

[yycyak]

So you said the magic words: "Feel the difference." But does that translate to any functional difference at 500m? Especially if the wind is blowing strong that day?

Please don't get the impression I'm calling you out - I'm not. My life sucks right now in that I'm running a business, dealing with kids, spouse, and all the other stuff that comes with adulting. I'm pressed for time when it comes to hunting and shooting. I wish I could be doing more of this testing myself. (See earlier comment about crappy shot etc.)

But I'm with @ddowning - Nobody really gets enthusiastic about chrono numbers. We are hungry to see steel at 600m with bubba loads.

Back when I did have time, and DID test this out a few times, it made no difference in field shooting. This changed a lot of stuff for me. I don't clean brass. I don't clean primer pockets. I don't chamfer. I do lube before sizing, but even that is half-assed, and after the brass gets wiped with a dirty rag or t-shirt at most.

I don't have the credibility that other shooters here have (yourself included), but I'm always hoping that one of those studs will give it a shot and post the results one day. (@Formidilosus has done this, but he's a known internet crazy person. I want to see more crazies give it a shot.)

I haven’t flat done none of it at one particular time honestly. I just slowly added in things, and compared them along the way. Like I’ve brushed 10 necks and not brushed 10 necks, then went and shot both side by side. Group was smaller and ES was lower from brushing the necks. Maybe a fluke… but it also literally takes 3 minutes to do 100 cases and you can physically feel the difference when seating bullets. I also just wiped cases off and not tumbled. That makes zero difference. I just tumble so I don’t have to wipe down 100’s of cases lol.

The mandrel stuff isn’t that necessary. You can just use a bushing that puts your neck ID where you want it. I just like the idea of the imperfections being pushed outwards by the mandrel as a last step, as opposed to them being pushed inward by a bushing.

I’m also way OCD, obviously, lol. So some things just make sense in my mind, so I don’t/can’t skip them hahaha.

 

[MEdude]

When you have a developed load using X times fired brass, and you introduce a new batch of virgin brass, do you do any initial brass prep to lay a foundation? Or just load your standard and shoot?

 

[huntnful]

So you said the magic words: "Feel the difference." But does that translate to any functional difference at 500m? Especially if the wind is blowing strong that day?

Please don't get the impression I'm calling you out - I'm not. My life sucks right now in that I'm running a business, dealing with kids, spouse, and all the other stuff that comes with adulting. I'm pressed for time when it comes to hunting and shooting. I wish I could be doing more of this testing myself. (See earlier comment about crappy shot etc.)

But I'm with @ddowning - Nobody really gets enthusiastic about chrono numbers. We are hungry to see steel at 600m with bubba loads.

Back when I did have time, and DID test this out a few times, it made no difference in field shooting. This changed a lot of stuff for me. I don't clean brass. I don't clean primer pockets. I don't chamfer. I do lube before sizing, but even that is half-assed, and after the brass gets wiped with a dirty rag or t-shirt at most.

I don't have the credibility that other shooters here have (yourself included), but I'm always hoping that one of those studs will give it a shot and post the results one day. (@Formidilosus has done this, but he's a known internet crazy person. I want to see more crazies give it a shot.)

I wouldn’t take it as an attack at all man! I always enjoy hearing other peoples testing and perspectives! That has helped me grow a lot as a shooter and hunter over the years. I don’t discount info from anyone.

Also, to clarify, basically none of that reloading “procedure” stuff matters for hitting deer vitals at 500 yards. Even if, worst case scenario, that 1/2 MOA 10 shot group turned into 1.5 MOA (which I doubt it would even grow that much) if I did absolutely zero steps from my normal practice. I’m still pretty much killing any deer sized game out to 500 yards.

In all honesty, it just makes me feel good to have a box of 100 pretty little rounds, all loaded and boxed up with my OCD consistency's haha. Even though I know it’s not necessary to kill something.

The act of killing animals is actually pretty easy once you’ve put yourself in the position to do so.

Shooting a 10-12 shot .6 MOA group is much harder. Or a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group at 1200 yards. It genuinely feels like a shooting accomplishment haha. So I do spend a lot of time at the range shooting groups, mostly because I enjoy the process of testing and reloading. But I also kill plenty of animals with relative ease, when I decide I want them dead. And know that what I do on the range, is not necessary for what’s needed in the field for 500 yards. They are very different things IMO.

 

[Harvey_NW]

So hear me out before flipping chairs, but:

Have you tried doing none-of-that?

Yes. The issues that arose when I did was I would get shaved jackets from not chamfering and brushing necks (I polish my expander ball down a thou or two for more tension, personal preference), and I experienced bullet weld and pressure spike from hunting loads in fired brass that sat for a couple months. So I do chamfer/brush and use graphite lube, but those steps add all of 20 min to the process.

Here is what I got from virgin brass chamfered, ran over a ball, lubed, and loaded 1gr below ejector marks/1.5gr below bolt lift. Semi custom Tikka 25 Creedmoor in unbedded factory stock, Peterson brass, H4350, CCI 200, 133 EH.

 

[huntnful]

Yes. The issues that arose when I did was I would get shaved jackets from not chamfering and brushing necks (I polish my expander ball down a thou or two for more tension, personal preference), and I experienced bullet weld and pressure spike from hunting loads in fired brass that sat for a couple months. So I do chamfer/brush and use graphite lube, but those steps add all of 20 min to the process.

Here is what I got from virgin brass chamfered, ran over a ball, lubed, and loaded 1gr below ejector marks/1.5gr below bolt lift. Semi custom Tikka 25 Creedmoor in unbedded factory stock, Peterson brass, H4350, CCI 200, 133 EH.

View attachment 714628

Yeah, the steps are fairly fast and easy to implement, and I’ve seen them make a difference enough times to just implement them all the time.

I know we’re just out here trying to kill animals efficiently, not shoot world records. But if you just take a quick look into the benchrest or F class groups, they show their brass prep, and they don’t do it that way for fun. It’s not very complicated either. Trim/chamfer, lube, size, mandrel, brush necks. Some moly some don’t. It doesn’t take long, so I do it.

 

[yycyak]

That's a wicked group! Do you have a photo of the non-virgin, non-chamfered, no-ball loads to contrast against?

Yes. The issues that arose when I did was I would get shaved jackets from not chamfering and brushing necks (I polish my expander ball down a thou or two for more tension, personal preference), and I experienced bullet weld and pressure spike from hunting loads in fired brass that sat for a couple months. So I do chamfer/brush and use graphite lube, but those steps add all of 20 min to the process.

Here is what I got from virgin brass chamfered, ran over a ball, lubed, and loaded 1gr below ejector marks/1.5gr below bolt lift. Semi custom Tikka 25 Creedmoor in unbedded factory stock, Peterson brass, H4350, CCI 200, 133 EH.

View attachment 714628

 

[yycyak]

That's a relief to hear, as I'm always concerned that someone is going to get grumpy-pants with these discussions. Glad we are on the same page.

So your in own words: "...basically none of that reloading “procedure” stuff matters for hitting deer vitals at 500 yards" leads me to the question of, in the context of field shooting/hunting, "Why bother then?" I think that's the whole point of this thread.

Again, this isn't me kicking your puppy: It's the exact conversation I had with myself, and was a difficult one to stomach for me, as an OCD detail-oriented type.

If none of that stuff matters for 500-600m field shooting and killing of game, why do it? You mentioned brenchrest shooting - I 100% agree that these small minutae and details make a difference in benchrest, and should be done. Your own targets and photos speak to how precise a person can get, which is awesome.

In my (very irrelevant) opinion, I think it comes down to whether a guy (1) Reloads to Shoot, or (2) Shoots to Reload. Some dudes absolutely love #2. Spend hours in the reloading room, tweaking and adjusting and making things as perfect as they can. It's theraputic, relaxing, whatever.

But in my limited experience, as a dude firmly in Camp #1 these days, is that the difference between #1 and #2 for purposes of field shooting is negligible. There's a ton of posts in this thread that show as much. 80/20 to the extreme in some cases.

I 100% admit pristine, perfect, variable-free loads make a difference. But when success is measured in killing something, wind calls make more of a difference. My fitness levels (or lack thereof) makes more of a difference. Recoil makes more of a difference.

I realize I'm going in circles here, so I guess all of this is to say I'd rather spend my time focusing on being a better shooter, than chasing minute variables that are, at best, relevant to the benchrest game. Nobody told me this when I started (I was trained in Classical Fudd), so I try and steer people away from that where I can.

I wouldn’t take it as an attack at all man! I always enjoy hearing other peoples testing and perspectives! That has helped me grow a lot as a shooter and hunter over the years. I don’t discount info from anyone.

Also, to clarify, basically none of that reloading “procedure” stuff matters for hitting deer vitals at 500 yards. Even if, worst case scenario, that 1/2 MOA 10 shot group turned into 1.5 MOA (which I doubt it would even grow that much) if I did absolutely zero steps from my normal practice. I’m still pretty much killing any deer sized game out to 500 yards.

In all honesty, it just makes me feel good to have a box of 100 pretty little rounds, all loaded and boxed up with my OCD consistency's haha. Even though I know it’s not necessary to kill something.

The act of killing animals is actually pretty easy once you’ve put yourself in the position to do so.

Shooting a 10-12 shot .6 MOA group is much harder. Or a 1/2 MOA 5 shot group at 1200 yards. It genuinely feels like a shooting accomplishment haha. So I do spend a lot of time at the range shooting groups, mostly because I enjoy the process of testing and reloading. But I also kill plenty of animals with relative ease, when I decide I want them dead. And know that what I do on the range, is not necessary for what’s needed in the field for 500 yards. They are very different things IMO.

 

[huntnful]

That's a relief to hear, as I'm always concerned that someone is going to get grumpy-pants with these discussions. Glad we are on the same page.

So your in own words: "...basically none of that reloading “procedure” stuff matters for hitting deer vitals at 500 yards" leads me to the question of, in the context of field shooting/hunting, "Why bother then?" I think that's the whole point of this thread.

Again, this isn't me kicking your puppy: It's the exact conversation I had with myself, and was a difficult one to stomach for me, as an OCD detail-oriented type.

If none of that stuff matters for 500-600m field shooting and killing of game, why do it? You mentioned brenchrest shooting - I 100% agree that these small minutae and details make a difference in benchrest, and should be done. Your own targets and photos speak to how precise a person can get, which is awesome.

In my (very irrelevant) opinion, I think it comes down to whether a guy (1) Reloads to Shoot, or (2) Shoots to Reload. Some dudes absolutely love #2. Spend hours in the reloading room, tweaking and adjusting and making things as perfect as they can. It's theraputic, relaxing, whatever.

But in my limited experience, as a dude firmly in Camp #1 these days, is that the difference between #1 and #2 for purposes of field shooting is negligible. There's a ton of posts in this thread that show as much. 80/20 to the extreme in some cases.

I 100% admit pristine, perfect, variable-free loads make a difference. But when success is measured in killing something, wind calls make more of a difference. My fitness levels (or lack thereof) makes more of a difference. Recoil makes more of a difference.

I realize I'm going in circles here, so I guess all of this is to say I'd rather spend my time focusing on being a better shooter, than chasing minute variables that are, at best, relevant to the benchrest game. Nobody told me this when I started (I was trained in Classical Fudd), so I try and steer people away from that where I can.

Very well articulated!

Well for me personally, I shoot much farther than 500 yards. That’s the #1 reason.

And my second reason is, why not do it if I know it makes a decent difference?

You gave your justifications, which if it makes sense to you, no need to change it!

For me, an extra 30 minutes to shrink my groups a little bit, and help eliminate some variables that I don’t have to question when I miss, is worth it for me.

 

[Harvey_NW]

That's a wicked group! Do you have a photo of the non-virgin, non-chamfered, no-ball loads to contrast against?

No, once I experienced those issues with a different rifle (6 Creed) I just decided it was worth the extra 20 min to be sure those are consistent, and load on. I've been down the benchrest ammo rabbit hole and agree that I couldn't make a repeatable improvement show up on target. But the jacket shaving could in theory affect BC (and I'm not willing to shoot the amount of shots needed to test and prove it for 5 min at the case prep station), and I had a pretty big shift in POI at distance from bullet weld. The load went from being perfectly safe and consistent to very pronounced ejector marks, excessive recoil, and stiff bolt. Since using graphite I haven't had an issue.

This is the group with the same rifle once I got the can. I dropped the charge .5gr to mitigate any additional pressure because it was my first experience with a can. 2 bore sighted shots, made the adjustment, and sent the remaining 8.

 

[ddowning]

I literally JUST prepped my last 100 pieces of alpha brass yesterday. Would have been very easy to not touch 20 pieces and load them and shoot them for a test. Dammit!

And I agree about the chrono numbers. I just run a chrono all the time because it’s easy and I like the info. I just care that they hit close on steel. That 1/4 MOA group at 600 yards had an ES of like 60fps. And just loaded up 200 rounds of the same exact load lol. It’s not the end all be all for me. How it shoots is what actually matter. But huge velocity swings (bad combustion) does just show up at 1200 yards normally

I like to run a chrono as well. I do not find them valuable in deciding which load to run. I do find them valuable to identify trends that effect trajectory. Powder temp sensitivity, and speed up after x number of rounds of fouling on a clean barrel are valuable things to know. I run h1000 in 243AI with 105-115 grain bullets a lot. After 200 rounds or so, the fouling will cause a 40-50fps speed up over the velocity from a barrel that has only 20 shots of fouling in it. It is a gradual build up of speed, not a big jump.

I did not want to divulge this early in the conversation, but I have tried what we are talking about. I stopped making reloading complicated when my wife and kids started shooting matches with me. I found little to no difference for my use case (might be different with yours). In all honesty, my 6 Dashers shoot so well, I don't think I could shoot the difference if there was one. It might be noticeable in 243AI or 6.5 creedmoor or 223, but even there, the quick and dirty method is around .75 moa for 10 shots with good barrels. I am curious if it matters with bigger cases like the 7-300 nmi.

Also, I tend to chase different things in different cartridges. Dasher is raw precision. 243ai is better ballistics with low recoil or better terminal performance. 223 is cheap with acceptable precision. Therefore, 243AI gets pushed with dtacs, 6 dasher is 108 Bergers, and 223 is usually whatever hornady bullets 68 grains or over is on sale when I'm buying. In my experience, berger>sierra>hornady. Those can flip flop occasionally based on good or bad lots, but that tends to be the way it works in general.

That said, I am the laziest, and get the best results, with 6 Dasher. I have never done any load development on 6 Dasher and have consistently been able to shoot 10 shot groups under .5" at 100 yards, even when some of the shots don't feel the best. That is better than any other cartridge I shoot or load for. It takes an exceptional barrel in 243ai or 223 or 6.5 creedmoor to do that. The average across a few good barrels of each is around 3/4" for 10 shots. Its possible the difference is in the bullets. Hard to say for sure as I buy the bullets to toast the barrel when I get the barrel. Maybe a combo of good/bad barrel and bullet lot together to create the results. (Obviously, everything is really good to get those results. Maybe I should have said good/less good).

 

[ddowning]

You guys are posting fast. I agree that chamfer is important. I do that every time.

How are you guys cleaning brass? I think that makes a difference as to neck tension, bullet weld, etc. I tried a lot of methods and honestly the best results came from vibratory tumbling in rice or walnut media. Other than that, no cleaning was better than everything else. Using ultrasonic or wet tumbling was a disaster. When leaving some carbon in the neck, I was able to do away with brushing a lubing necks. I did not see a noticeable decrease in precision when looking at things anecdotally. Had I been more analytical, it might have produced a small, but quantitative difference. I don't know because I didn't go that deep.

 

[huntnful]

I like to run a chrono as well. I do not find them valuable in deciding which load to run. I do find them valuable to identify trends that effect trajectory. Powder temp sensitivity, and speed up after x number of rounds of fouling on a clean barrel are valuable things to know. I run h1000 in 243AI with 105-115 grain bullets a lot. After 200 rounds or so, the fouling will cause a 40-50fps speed up over the velocity from a barrel that has only 20 shots of fouling in it. It is a gradual build up of speed, not a big jump.

I did not want to divulge this early in the conversation, but I have tried what we are talking about. I stopped making reloading complicated when my wife and kids started shooting matches with me. I found little to no difference for my use case (might be different with yours). In all honesty, my 6 Dashers shoot so well, I don't think I could shoot the difference if there was one. It might be noticeable in 243AI or 6.5 creedmoor or 223, but even there, the quick and dirty method is around .75 moa for 10 shots with good barrels. I am curious if it matters with bigger cases like the 7-300 nmi.

Also, I tend to chase different things in different cartridges. Dasher is raw precision. 243ai is better ballistics with low recoil or better terminal performance. 223 is cheap with acceptable precision. Therefore, 243AI gets pushed with dtacs, 6 dasher is 108 Bergers, and 223 is usually whatever hornady bullets 68 grains or over is on sale when I'm buying. In my experience, berger>sierra>hornady. Those can flip flop occasionally based on good or bad lots, but that tends to be the way it works in general.

That said, I am the laziest, and get the best results, with 6 Dasher. I have never done any load development on 6 Dasher and have consistently been able to shoot 10 shot groups under .5" at 100 yards, even when some of the shots don't feel the best. That is better than any other cartridge I shoot or load for. It takes an exceptional barrel in 243ai or 223 or 6.5 creedmoor to do that. The average across a few good barrels of each is around 3/4" for 10 shots. Its possible the difference is in the bullets. Hard to say for sure as I buy the bullets to toast the barrel when I get the barrel. Maybe a combo of good/bad barrel and bullet lot together to create the results. (Obviously, everything is really good to get those results. Maybe I should have said good/less good).

Either the larger cartridges are more finnicky, or the appearance of said finnickyness is solely recoil related.

I think it’s a combination of both though. That’s a lot of combustion going on in there.

Shooting a smaller cartridge, in a heavier platform is just going to shoot better, easier. Any 10 shot group in the .7’s, no matter how you get it there, is plenty good for me to quit shooting it at 100 yards. Then I just go far with it.

You guys are posting fast. I agree that chamfer is important. I do that every time.

How are you guys cleaning brass? I think that makes a difference as to neck tension, bullet weld, etc. I tried a lot of methods and honestly the best results came from vibratory tumbling in rice or walnut media. Other than that, no cleaning was better than everything else. Using ultrasonic or wet tumbling was a disaster. When leaving some carbon in the neck, I was able to do away with brushing a lubing necks. I did not see a noticeable decrease in precision when looking at things anecdotally. Had I been more analytical, it might have produced a small, but quantitative difference. I don't know because I didn't go that deep.

Agreed. Just wiping the brass off, or tumbling in walnut shells to clean it off, and leaving the carbon in the neck is great. But then I brush the neck is the only difference.

Sometimes I wet tumble, for no real rhyme or reason it feels like anymore. I do it less and less honestly. It dings up the chamfer on the necks and I don’t like having to re-uniform them afterwards

 

[Harvey_NW]

vibratory tumbling in rice

This is all I do. I get the best sizing results from homemade lanolin/alcohol lube so after sizing I toss them in the tumbler for an hour or so, and then tumble them through a media separator, dump the lot on a bath towel and grab it like a hammock and roll them back and forth a couple times. I might try grinding the white rice to avoid any grains stuck in the pockets, I think @Justin Crossley mentioned this in the past so maybe he can give us some feedback.

in the context of field shooting/hunting, "Why bother then?" I think that's the whole point of this thread.

The key takeaways for me are not that I believe any of what I do makes the load better in terms of precision, but has seemingly made a positive impact on the consistency and safety. I get consistent shoulder bump and smooth sizing, smooth seating, typically 30 or so ES for 10+ shots, haven't had any pressure issues with ammo that's sat after using graphite, and have never had to address issues in the body area of a dirty chamber. To me, the small amount of time it takes to do those steps is worth it. YMMV.